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Hoola 的案件
#108927: "Make standard (merciless) scoring method optional"
#108927: "Make standard (merciless) scoring method optional"
這是關於哪方面的案件?
發生什麼事? 請從下方選擇
建議:依我所見,有些調整將大幅增進遊戲完成度
發生什麼事? 請從下方選擇
建議:依我所見,有些調整將大幅增進遊戲完成度
請檢查是否已有同課題案件
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# | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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細節描述
• 如果可以的話,請轉貼螢幕顯示的錯誤訊息。
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• 請說明你當時想做什麼,你做了什麼,然後發生了什麼事
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎?若為真,其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議,以便讓人一目了然。
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 當你不能動作時,螢幕上顯示什麼?(螢幕全黑?部份遊戲介面?錯誤訊息?)
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 遊戲規則的哪部分在 BGA 版本有所錯漏?
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• 這項違反規則之處可否在遊戲重播中看到?若可以是在哪步?(重播時左上角資訊)
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 你當時想採取哪個遊戲行動?
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• 你想觸發這個遊戲行動時做了什麼?
• 當你試著這麼做時發生了什麼(錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...)?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 問題發生在遊戲的哪一步?(當前遊戲指示是什麼)
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• 當你試著進行遊戲動作時發生了什麼(錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...)?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 請描述顯示問題。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎?若為真,其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議,以便讓人一目了然。
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
案件沿革
2023年12月31日 1:23 • lecoco • 此建議尚未被開發者分析過:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=455267861
In the game above, in round 2, I had 2 cards left and stopped the round. Because I was undercut and my score became negative, the game ended. I went from a tie for 2nd to losing the game immediately. -40 points is not a large deficit to overcome in Hoola and a player can climb back up the leaderboard.
I've played Hoola a lot before this new rule was implemented. Previously a player was incentivized to stop a round early, even with the existing risk of being undercut. After implementation of the new rule, there is a high risk of losing without a chance for a comeback. I may not risk stopping a round for fear of an early game end. Stopping early was a strategic choice and the fundamentals of that decision have changed.
Please reconsider this rule change.
Thank you,
another Hoola lover
In the game above, in round 2, I had 2 cards left and stopped the round. Because I was undercut and my score became negative, the game ended. I went from a tie for 2nd to losing the game immediately. -40 points is not a large deficit to overcome in Hoola and a player can climb back up the leaderboard.
I've played Hoola a lot before this new rule was implemented. Previously a player was incentivized to stop a round early, even with the existing risk of being undercut. After implementation of the new rule, there is a high risk of losing without a chance for a comeback. I may not risk stopping a round for fear of an early game end. Stopping early was a strategic choice and the fundamentals of that decision have changed.
Please reconsider this rule change.
Thank you,
another Hoola lover
2023年12月31日 2:14 • ufm • 此建議已獲實施:
First, this rule is actually called 'bankruptcy' in Korean, not 'mercy rule'. This is not merciful at all.
I borrowed the English term from other games with a similar rule (to avoid using gambling words).
This rule is implemented to support short length 2/3 player games which consititute >90% of all BGA Hoola games.
In this setting, the comeback is practically impossible when the last player has already lost >200 points and the leader plays defensively.
However, I admit the initial setting of 200 points didn't consider games with more players/more multipliers/longer game length option, so I opted to adjust the initial points instead.
From now on, new games will start with more points.
For example, a 4 players/8 rounds/Battle Hoola rule set game will start with 1600 points, instead of 200.
I think this is a good compromise.
I borrowed the English term from other games with a similar rule (to avoid using gambling words).
This rule is implemented to support short length 2/3 player games which consititute >90% of all BGA Hoola games.
In this setting, the comeback is practically impossible when the last player has already lost >200 points and the leader plays defensively.
However, I admit the initial setting of 200 points didn't consider games with more players/more multipliers/longer game length option, so I opted to adjust the initial points instead.
From now on, new games will start with more points.
For example, a 4 players/8 rounds/Battle Hoola rule set game will start with 1600 points, instead of 200.
I think this is a good compromise.
2023年12月31日 19:54 • muttlolz • 此建議已獲實施:
Thank you for taking into consideration my appeal, I really appreciate it!
Happy new year!
Happy new year!
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任何可能重現這項錯誤或了解你的建議之相關資訊,都請在此填寫:
- 其他同樣狀況的桌號/步數
- 按 F5 是否解決了這個問題?
- 問題是否發生了好幾次?每次都發生?時好時壞?
- 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
更改案件狀態為:
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