#118071: "Cards should not be "Self-destruct" when can't pay to summon/placed"
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細節描述
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• 如果可以的話，請轉貼螢幕顯示的錯誤訊息。
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. -
• 請說明你當時想做什麼，你做了什麼，然後發生了什麼事
Example #489427696 Move71
snipboard.io/PUcwsQ.jpg
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Mozilla v5
-
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. -
• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎？若為真，其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時？
Example #489427696 Move71
snipboard.io/PUcwsQ.jpg
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Mozilla v5
-
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議，以便讓人一目了然。
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Mozilla v5
-
• 當你不能動作時，螢幕上顯示什麼？（螢幕全黑？部份遊戲介面？錯誤訊息？）
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Mozilla v5
-
• 遊戲規則的哪部分在 BGA 版本有所錯漏？
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. -
• 這項違反規則之處可否在遊戲重播中看到？若可以是在哪步？（重播時左上角資訊）
Example #489427696 Move71
snipboard.io/PUcwsQ.jpg
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Mozilla v5
-
• 你當時想採取哪個遊戲行動？
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. -
• 你想觸發這個遊戲行動時做了什麼？
Example #489427696 Move71
snipboard.io/PUcwsQ.jpg
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• 當你試著這麼做時發生了什麼（錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...）？
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Mozilla v5
-
• 問題發生在遊戲的哪一步？（目前遊戲指示是什麼）
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. -
• 當你試著進行遊戲動作時發生了什麼（錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...）？
Example #489427696 Move71
snipboard.io/PUcwsQ.jpg
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Mozilla v5
-
• 請描述顯示問題。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Mozilla v5
-
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. -
• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎？若為真，其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時？
Example #489427696 Move71
snipboard.io/PUcwsQ.jpg
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Mozilla v5
-
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議，以便讓人一目了然。
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Mozilla v5
案件沿革
#489427696 Move56
snipboard.io/LYr3VK.jpg
Well, the rules state that the card is revealed first (10-6-3), then the cost is determined. To me the implementation here seems correct.
I updated the payment button's text after a burst effect. It will now simply show "Reset"
destroyed. When a spirit or nexus owner’s actions or cost payments result in a change
in the number of cores on the card or a change in the LV1 cost of the card, and
consequently the number of cores on the spirit or nexus becomes insufficient for LV1,
that spirit or nexus is considered to be self-destroyed. Effects which trigger when a
card is destroyed and effects which substitute some other management for destruction
do not activate under these circumstances.
9-4-2-3 When a spirit owner’s actions or cost payments result in a change of level or BP of
the spirit, and consequently the spirit is destroyed as a result of its BP becoming zero
or less, that spirit is considered self-destroyed.
10-1-1-1 Some destructions are called self-destructions, which are distinct from regular
destructions. If a cost payment or some other player action by the card owner such as
moving cores around during their main step results in the LV1 cost of a card no
longer being fulfilled, the destruction of that card is considered self-destruction.
Effects which would apply to destroyed cards, or apply when cards are destroyed, are
not applied in the case of self-destruction.
In the rule, only "results in the LV1 cost of a card no
longer being fulfilled" seek as "self-destruct". None of them metion about what if the player can't pay for playing a card.
10-6-3 is to determine the step of the progress. Since it is a TCG and there will be a lot of effect and FAQ things about how things progress.
Saying like "when 2 spirit in BP battle destory together how should the brust effect goes. " This type of minor issue that are not clear enough in the rules are waiting for FAQ. And 10-6 is something like to try to make things clear.
However, the point about the card having to self-destruct due to not having enough core to fulfill level 1 after paying the cost is correct.
(But it's just that most people wouldn't do this, as there is no hand card limit in the game, and such an action is unnecessary. So, if we could undo this, that would be better.)
boardgamegeek.com/thread/3272991/article/44025576#44025576
Normal player's view.
Thank you for your ongoing valuable contribution.
Let's consider a RL game. Any card can be placed on the playmat. Nothing will tell you in advance that your cores are insufficient. That's something players need to learn to calculate. Here, we are trying to emulate this environment.
Not being able to pay for a card is equivalent to it not having at least level 1.
What should happen to a card that you can't pay if it's not self-destruction?
[q]Some destructions are called self-destructions, which are distinct from regular destructions. If a cost payment or some other player action by the card owner such as moving cores around during their main step results in the LV1 cost of a card no longer being fulfilled, the destruction of that card is considered self-destruction.[/q]
It has already make it clear that only if "results in the LV1 cost of a card no longer being fulfilled", and those reasons can be:
1. cost payment.
2. some other player action by the card owner such as moving cores around during their main step.
ONLY RESULTS IN THE LV1 COST OF A CARD NO LONGER BEING FULFILLED !!!
Nothings tells that if a card you can't pay for calling self-destruction !!!
Why do you add your personal opions to a game that already has complete rules?
I had a conversation about this with an official BSS judge. You are right. Here are the two scenarios and their outcomes:
1. Card is revealed -> cost is too high -> card must go back to hand (opponent got valuable insight)
2. Card is revealed -> cost can be payed -> cost must be payed
This is less punishing than players needing to take back a card and also less prone to implementation errors.
Note that the cost check does not ensure that there will spirits will be able to reach level 1.
Also, this might mean spirits would need to be destroyed as their cores need to be removed during payment.
This is by the rules as a revealed card must be payed if able to.
為本案件添加內容
- 其他同樣狀況的桌號／步數
- 按 F5 是否解決了這個問題？
- 問題是否發生了好幾次？每次都發生？時好時壞？
- 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
