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#13729: "Accidental discards after a 10 is played"
#13729: "Accidental discards after a 10 is played"
這是關於哪方面的案件?
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建議:依我所見,有些調整將大幅增進遊戲完成度
發生什麼事? 請從下方選擇
建議:依我所見,有些調整將大幅增進遊戲完成度
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# | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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細節描述
• 如果可以的話,請轉貼螢幕顯示的錯誤訊息。
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• 請說明你當時想做什麼,你做了什麼,然後發生了什麼事
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v77
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎?若為真,其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v77
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議,以便讓人一目了然。
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v77
• 當你不能動作時,螢幕上顯示什麼?(螢幕全黑?部份遊戲介面?錯誤訊息?)
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v77
• 遊戲規則的哪部分在 BGA 版本有所錯漏?
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• 這項違反規則之處可否在遊戲重播中看到?若可以是在哪步?(重播時左上角資訊)
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v77
• 你當時想採取哪個遊戲行動?
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• 你想觸發這個遊戲行動時做了什麼?
• 當你試著這麼做時發生了什麼(錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...)?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v77
• 問題發生在遊戲的哪一步?(當前遊戲指示是什麼)
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• 當你試著進行遊戲動作時發生了什麼(錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...)?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v77
• 請描述顯示問題。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v77
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎?若為真,其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v77
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議,以便讓人一目了然。
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v77
案件沿革
2019年10月18日 20:11 • Woodruff • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Hi!
We all did that mistake (I did it too, and so did all beta-testeurs :P ), playing too fast. In some other games, that can be annoying too.
The policy in BGA on the matter is not to matronize the players who must learn by themselves. The responsability of playing fast and potentially making a mistakes lays on the player, not the game.
So I won't do anything about that.
When you get more experience on this game, you will soon not do that mistake again, trust me :)
Thanks!
Woodruff
We all did that mistake (I did it too, and so did all beta-testeurs :P ), playing too fast. In some other games, that can be annoying too.
The policy in BGA on the matter is not to matronize the players who must learn by themselves. The responsability of playing fast and potentially making a mistakes lays on the player, not the game.
So I won't do anything about that.
When you get more experience on this game, you will soon not do that mistake again, trust me :)
Thanks!
Woodruff
2019年10月23日 22:24 • Robo65 • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
No, Woodruff, I disagree. Or I am unable to learn. I mis-discarded much too many good cards myself.
BGA dev policy allows for confirmation dialogs in important states, and this is a good place for one. You spend a lot of ressources for confirmations when a pawn eats pawns of its own team; I think the "10-discard confirmation" is even more important
BGA dev policy allows for confirmation dialogs in important states, and this is a good place for one. You spend a lot of ressources for confirmations when a pawn eats pawns of its own team; I think the "10-discard confirmation" is even more important
2019年10月23日 22:43 • Woodruff • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
OK, I get that.
Still, one confirmation every 13 cards is too much (because there are 4 tens in a deck of 52) is too much and would break the fluidity of the game. And as a rule of thumb, confirmation dialogs need to be used scarcely.
Whereas a confirmation for self eating or teammate eating is justified because it does not occur that much.
To sum that up, the drawback of this loss of time on each game would not be compensated with the reduced amount of mistakes done by the players.
I cannot content everybody so I need to do some compromises like this... Sorry.
Thanks for your understanding.
Wood
Still, one confirmation every 13 cards is too much (because there are 4 tens in a deck of 52) is too much and would break the fluidity of the game. And as a rule of thumb, confirmation dialogs need to be used scarcely.
Whereas a confirmation for self eating or teammate eating is justified because it does not occur that much.
To sum that up, the drawback of this loss of time on each game would not be compensated with the reduced amount of mistakes done by the players.
I cannot content everybody so I need to do some compromises like this... Sorry.
Thanks for your understanding.
Wood
2019年10月24日 16:43 • diamant • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Je pense que la réponse de Woodruff n'est pas à la mesure du problème rencontré par les joueurs.
Car, le problème principal ne réside absolument pas en une erreur de choix de la carte à défausser : les joueurs défaussent une carte alors qu'il croyaient sélectionner une carte pour jouer comme lors d'un tour normal. Parce les icônes placées au-dessus des cartes ne sont ni visibles, ni compréhensibles. Quand j'ai vu l'icône censée représenter une poubelle pour la première fois, j'ai pensé qu'il pouvait s'agir soit d'un temple, soit du nombre III en chiffres romains, et je l'ai ignorée puisque je n'en comprenais pas la signification.
Quand c'est son tour de jouer, un joueur pense qu'il peut sélectionner une carte en toute sécurité, puisque normalement cette sélection peut toujours être annulée. En cas de défausse par l'effet d'un Dix, il n'y a pas de sélection, la carte part directement à la défausse au premier clic : c'est tout à fait anormal et non cohérent avec le reste de l'interface. Ce qui fait qu'un joueur peut voir partir la carte qu'il comptait jouer ; ce qui peut être désastreux si cette carte était son seul Roi ou As, et que le joueur n'a aucun pion en jeu.
Une confirmation de la carte à défausser me me paraît donc incontournable. Cette confirmation pourrait consister dans un deuxième clic sur la carte mise en évidence à l'issue du premier clic. Le joueur peut donc toujours sélectionner une autre carte à défausser en l'absence de confirmation, et la perte de temps pour effectuer le deuxième clic est totalement négligeable en regard des erreurs qui seront ainsi évitées.
Car, le problème principal ne réside absolument pas en une erreur de choix de la carte à défausser : les joueurs défaussent une carte alors qu'il croyaient sélectionner une carte pour jouer comme lors d'un tour normal. Parce les icônes placées au-dessus des cartes ne sont ni visibles, ni compréhensibles. Quand j'ai vu l'icône censée représenter une poubelle pour la première fois, j'ai pensé qu'il pouvait s'agir soit d'un temple, soit du nombre III en chiffres romains, et je l'ai ignorée puisque je n'en comprenais pas la signification.
Quand c'est son tour de jouer, un joueur pense qu'il peut sélectionner une carte en toute sécurité, puisque normalement cette sélection peut toujours être annulée. En cas de défausse par l'effet d'un Dix, il n'y a pas de sélection, la carte part directement à la défausse au premier clic : c'est tout à fait anormal et non cohérent avec le reste de l'interface. Ce qui fait qu'un joueur peut voir partir la carte qu'il comptait jouer ; ce qui peut être désastreux si cette carte était son seul Roi ou As, et que le joueur n'a aucun pion en jeu.
Une confirmation de la carte à défausser me me paraît donc incontournable. Cette confirmation pourrait consister dans un deuxième clic sur la carte mise en évidence à l'issue du premier clic. Le joueur peut donc toujours sélectionner une autre carte à défausser en l'absence de confirmation, et la perte de temps pour effectuer le deuxième clic est totalement négligeable en regard des erreurs qui seront ainsi évitées.
2019年10月24日 19:45 • Woodruff • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Désolé, mais j'en reviens au fait que c'est aussi au joueur de prendre ses responsabilités.
Il faut prendre son temps et ne pas jouer en mode automatique c'est tout.
Défausser une carte ou la jouer, ce n'est pas pareil, comme c'est le cas en IRL. Il ne faut pas miser sur le fait qu'on va jouer forcément.
La machine ne doit pas remplacer le cerveau de celui qui l'utilise :P
Il faut prendre son temps et ne pas jouer en mode automatique c'est tout.
Défausser une carte ou la jouer, ce n'est pas pareil, comme c'est le cas en IRL. Il ne faut pas miser sur le fait qu'on va jouer forcément.
La machine ne doit pas remplacer le cerveau de celui qui l'utilise :P
2020年 5月 9日 8:50 • cedg92 • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Bonjour, je suis d'accord avec le bug qui arrive beaucoup trop souvent.
Pour tous les autres coups, lorsque nous choisissons une carte, il reste une étape de "validation" lorsque nous choisissons ensuite le pion, puis validons sa case d'arrivée.
Ne pourrait-on pas valider la carte défaussée après un 10 en ayant à cliquer sur le tas de cartes au centre du plateau?
Je joue avec des amis chaque semaine, et c'est vraiment LE point faible du jeu. Nous avons même pris la décision entre nous d'annoncer à l'avance lorsque nous allons jouer un dix pour que le joueur suivant ne joue pas trop vite. Malgré cela, par habitude de jeu, il arrive que nous oublions de l'annoncer à voix haute et qu'un joueur se fasse quand même avoir.
Valider une carte après un 10, comme nous avons la possibilité de valider n'importe quel action du jeu, ne me paraît donc pas forcément anormal: pour reprendre une phrase plus haut "Quand c'est son tour de jouer, un joueur pense qu'il peut sélectionner une carte en toute sécurité, puisque normalement cette sélection peut toujours être annulée. "
Pour tous les autres coups, lorsque nous choisissons une carte, il reste une étape de "validation" lorsque nous choisissons ensuite le pion, puis validons sa case d'arrivée.
Ne pourrait-on pas valider la carte défaussée après un 10 en ayant à cliquer sur le tas de cartes au centre du plateau?
Je joue avec des amis chaque semaine, et c'est vraiment LE point faible du jeu. Nous avons même pris la décision entre nous d'annoncer à l'avance lorsque nous allons jouer un dix pour que le joueur suivant ne joue pas trop vite. Malgré cela, par habitude de jeu, il arrive que nous oublions de l'annoncer à voix haute et qu'un joueur se fasse quand même avoir.
Valider une carte après un 10, comme nous avons la possibilité de valider n'importe quel action du jeu, ne me paraît donc pas forcément anormal: pour reprendre une phrase plus haut "Quand c'est son tour de jouer, un joueur pense qu'il peut sélectionner une carte en toute sécurité, puisque normalement cette sélection peut toujours être annulée. "
2021年 2月23日 3:19 • janezy • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
I must agree with those in favor of a confirmation step, as is used in every other move in the game. I find that there are so many clicks to make a move happen, unless it's discarding after a 10 and that happens so fast. Even a dialogue box would be helpful. I mainly play this game in turn-based mode. If I entered the game and the board had a large message over the discard pile that said "The previous player played a 10. Choose a card to discard." that would be enough. I would not need a confirmation button then. But this is a unique state in the game and should be handled uniquely.
2021年 5月14日 3:49 • Tuut Tuut tis Luut • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Normally I'm not in favor of adding unnecessary steps that slow down the game to prevent player mistakes.
But in this case it really just doesn't apply, and blaming it on people not paying attention and playing too fast is honestly a rather bad argument here.
The problem here isn't that you're playing too fast. The problem is that it's an action that otherwise wouldn't have resulted in any move at all. Any other turn you can go ahead and click the card you think you'll want to use while at the same time thinking about your move. You can be thinking very carefully about every move you make and still make this mistake, because you were simply still looking at what your options are.
And, you say you want to keep the confirmation out to keep the fluidity of the game going, but in doing so, are penalizing players who actually are trying to keep the pace up and play fast.
For me at least, and I'm sure it's the same for plenty of other players. Not having the confirmation box breaks the fluidity of the game way more than the box itself would. Having fluidity to a game relies on players knowing instinctively how the interface works and how it responds to their actions. Having it respond differently in different situations means players can no longer rely on instincts and muscle memory to make their turns, breaking that fluidity, not adding to it.
Now, instead of one occasional extra click, I'm having to double check that I'm not accidentally discarding on every single turn before I can continue to think about my move. Taking me out of the game and my thought process, making my thinking time for every move significantly longer.
This is especially true in cases where I already know what my next move will be before the previous player had played their turn. Instead of multitasking and getting my own turn halfway started while I'm looking at what the previous player did, I'm having to stop in my tracks and double check for fear of a mistake.
I know what card I want to click, I know where it's located on the screen, the only reason I have to even look at my cards directly before starting my turn is because on some few turns there might be these tiny markers that would cause me to accidentally discard.
It's not that you would be adding a confirmation step to the 10s. It's that now, every move has a confirmation step EXCEPT the discards. Making it unfair and less fun to play for not just less experienced players, but also people trying to play fast, as well as the more casual players who might not have their full attention on the game at all times (which is a significant group who should be taken into consideration for a place like this).
If you don't want to add a confirmation box, and the very least make the fact that you're discarding more easily visible. Enough that it is obvious in a quick glance, instead of having to actually look for the markers to check.
But in this case it really just doesn't apply, and blaming it on people not paying attention and playing too fast is honestly a rather bad argument here.
The problem here isn't that you're playing too fast. The problem is that it's an action that otherwise wouldn't have resulted in any move at all. Any other turn you can go ahead and click the card you think you'll want to use while at the same time thinking about your move. You can be thinking very carefully about every move you make and still make this mistake, because you were simply still looking at what your options are.
And, you say you want to keep the confirmation out to keep the fluidity of the game going, but in doing so, are penalizing players who actually are trying to keep the pace up and play fast.
For me at least, and I'm sure it's the same for plenty of other players. Not having the confirmation box breaks the fluidity of the game way more than the box itself would. Having fluidity to a game relies on players knowing instinctively how the interface works and how it responds to their actions. Having it respond differently in different situations means players can no longer rely on instincts and muscle memory to make their turns, breaking that fluidity, not adding to it.
Now, instead of one occasional extra click, I'm having to double check that I'm not accidentally discarding on every single turn before I can continue to think about my move. Taking me out of the game and my thought process, making my thinking time for every move significantly longer.
This is especially true in cases where I already know what my next move will be before the previous player had played their turn. Instead of multitasking and getting my own turn halfway started while I'm looking at what the previous player did, I'm having to stop in my tracks and double check for fear of a mistake.
I know what card I want to click, I know where it's located on the screen, the only reason I have to even look at my cards directly before starting my turn is because on some few turns there might be these tiny markers that would cause me to accidentally discard.
It's not that you would be adding a confirmation step to the 10s. It's that now, every move has a confirmation step EXCEPT the discards. Making it unfair and less fun to play for not just less experienced players, but also people trying to play fast, as well as the more casual players who might not have their full attention on the game at all times (which is a significant group who should be taken into consideration for a place like this).
If you don't want to add a confirmation box, and the very least make the fact that you're discarding more easily visible. Enough that it is obvious in a quick glance, instead of having to actually look for the markers to check.
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更改案件狀態為:
bug?id=13729