#15880: "rules say the windmill actions can be taken even if not your turn"
這是關於哪方面的案件?
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細節描述
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• 如果可以的話,請轉貼螢幕顯示的錯誤訊息。
if it is not your turn, the windmill actions are not available for a player. Since there is also no confirmation, it changes to the next player too quickly. Also, at times I want to use the windmill in response to another players actions but I am not able to. The rule in question is on page 7
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• 請說明你當時想做什麼,你做了什麼,然後發生了什麼事
not exactly, i just couldn't use the windmill when it wasn't my turn
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v81
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• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
if it is not your turn, the windmill actions are not available for a player. Since there is also no confirmation, it changes to the next player too quickly. Also, at times I want to use the windmill in response to another players actions but I am not able to. The rule in question is on page 7
-
• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎?若為真,其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時?
not exactly, i just couldn't use the windmill when it wasn't my turn
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v81
-
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議,以便讓人一目了然。
if it is not your turn, the windmill actions are not available for a player. Since there is also no confirmation, it changes to the next player too quickly. Also, at times I want to use the windmill in response to another players actions but I am not able to. The rule in question is on page 7
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v81
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• 當你不能動作時,螢幕上顯示什麼?(螢幕全黑?部份遊戲介面?錯誤訊息?)
if it is not your turn, the windmill actions are not available for a player. Since there is also no confirmation, it changes to the next player too quickly. Also, at times I want to use the windmill in response to another players actions but I am not able to. The rule in question is on page 7
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v81
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• 遊戲規則的哪部分在 BGA 版本有所錯漏?
if it is not your turn, the windmill actions are not available for a player. Since there is also no confirmation, it changes to the next player too quickly. Also, at times I want to use the windmill in response to another players actions but I am not able to. The rule in question is on page 7
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• 這項違反規則之處可否在遊戲重播中看到?若可以是在哪步?(重播時左上角資訊)
not exactly, i just couldn't use the windmill when it wasn't my turn
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v81
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• 你當時想採取哪個遊戲行動?
if it is not your turn, the windmill actions are not available for a player. Since there is also no confirmation, it changes to the next player too quickly. Also, at times I want to use the windmill in response to another players actions but I am not able to. The rule in question is on page 7
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• 你想觸發這個遊戲行動時做了什麼?
not exactly, i just couldn't use the windmill when it wasn't my turn
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• 當你試著這麼做時發生了什麼(錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...)?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v81
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• 問題發生在遊戲的哪一步?(目前遊戲指示是什麼)
if it is not your turn, the windmill actions are not available for a player. Since there is also no confirmation, it changes to the next player too quickly. Also, at times I want to use the windmill in response to another players actions but I am not able to. The rule in question is on page 7
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• 當你試著進行遊戲動作時發生了什麼(錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...)?
not exactly, i just couldn't use the windmill when it wasn't my turn
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v81
-
• 請描述顯示問題。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
if it is not your turn, the windmill actions are not available for a player. Since there is also no confirmation, it changes to the next player too quickly. Also, at times I want to use the windmill in response to another players actions but I am not able to. The rule in question is on page 7
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v81
-
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
if it is not your turn, the windmill actions are not available for a player. Since there is also no confirmation, it changes to the next player too quickly. Also, at times I want to use the windmill in response to another players actions but I am not able to. The rule in question is on page 7
-
• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎?若為真,其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時?
not exactly, i just couldn't use the windmill when it wasn't my turn
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v81
-
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議,以便讓人一目了然。
if it is not your turn, the windmill actions are not available for a player. Since there is also no confirmation, it changes to the next player too quickly. Also, at times I want to use the windmill in response to another players actions but I am not able to. The rule in question is on page 7
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v81
案件沿革
One thing that should definitely happen is a confirmation to end your turn, in case you want to convert resources or go up/down the windmill. That is the low-hanging fruit here. But that would only address part of the issue. The other part is going up or down the windmill even when it is not your turn.
I have played a fair number of different games on BGA, but of course there are plenty that I have not played. I can't think of any games that allow you to take actions when it is not your turn. Well, to be more precise, I cannot think of any BGA game which doesn't fall into 1 of 2 categories:
- Simultaneous play (like 7 Wonders, 6 nimmt, etc). In this case, everyone is deciding their move simultaneously, but you cannot see anyone's moves until they are all resolved. So you cannot react to something someone else chose.
- Turn-based play where the game is prompting exactly 1 player to make a decision at a time. Only that player is able to make a choice.
For Madeira to allow people to use the windmill outside of their turn, it would be a situation where BGA is prompting one player (whose turn it is) in the regular way. But it would also be prompting every other user about the windmill. Would I be able to end my turn without every other player confirming that they didn't want to use the windmill? And if one player did decide to use the windmill on my turn, then does everyone again have to confirm that they don't want to use the windmill in response to that?
Or would it be a real time thing where if you happen to use the windmill while it's still my turn, fine, but if I finish my turn and you have not done it, then the game progresses and you missed that chance?
I can also see there being issues if I'm trying to use the windmill while you are trying to take your turn. The two actions don't strictly speaking conflict with each other, but you may want to do something different on your turn if you see that I am using the windmill. The game client would have to recognize that the windmill had been used while you were taking your turn, and ask you if you wanted to restart your turn. But what if you wanted to use the windmill only if I decided to do a particular thing on my turn? In that case, the game client couldn't let me undo my turn in response to your windmill use.
I am not sure it's practical to fully implement the rule as written on BGA. I think it should definitely prompt you at the end of your turn to allow you to do any free actions before you complete your turn. Otherwise, careful thought should be given to when a player really would want/need to use the windmilll outside of their turn.
I think the most common case is at the end of the phase C. So I think I would add a prompt to all players at the end of phase C, simultaneously asking them if they want to use the windmill. If everyone says no, the game proceeds. If anyone uses the windmill, then the question is -- do they all use it simultaneously? That obviously isn't how it would work in a physical game of Madeira. Someone would have to declare they are using it, they would use it, and then the others could react. So I think the idea BGA algorithm to cover this would be to do the following at the end of phase C:
1) Prompt all users simultaneously to use the windmill (to go up or down)
2) If no players declare a windmill action, the game proceeds to game D.
3) If one or more players declare a windmill action, then ONLY the player earliest in turn order executes their action.
4) Go to step #1
That way players could continue to react to each decision. This does impose an artificial rule that isn't in the rulebook (player order), but I don't think this works without some order imposed.
Finally, I think you'd want to add a prompt in phase D, right before workers have to be fed, asking users if they want to go up the windmill. The reason this wouldn't be covered by the previous case is because the players may have gained resources from the colonies that allow them to go up the windmill when they could not before. I think the same algorithm I described before would be used, except that only players with the required resources would be prompted.
I think adding it at key points (ie phase C) is a good option. Maybe there can be an additional option on the windmill "Ask me about the windmill at the end of my turn", which a player can click on to let the game know they want to use the windmill.
- There is an undo feature now, and you can trade at that time.
- Also it's possible to trade just before the upkeep phases (phase D).
為本案件添加內容
- 其他同樣狀況的桌號/步數
- 按 F5 是否解決了這個問題?
- 問題是否發生了好幾次?每次都發生?時好時壞?
- 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
