#158892: "Randal's ability implemented incorrectly, allows Plains Safeguard while in adjacent regions"
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細節描述
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• 如果可以的話，請轉貼螢幕顯示的錯誤訊息。
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• 請說明你當時想做什麼，你做了什麼，然後發生了什麼事
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v132
-
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎？若為真，其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時？
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v132
-
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議，以便讓人一目了然。
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v132
-
• 當你不能動作時，螢幕上顯示什麼？（螢幕全黑？部份遊戲介面？錯誤訊息？）
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v132
-
• 遊戲規則的哪部分在 BGA 版本有所錯漏？
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• 這項違反規則之處可否在遊戲重播中看到？若可以是在哪步？（重播時左上角資訊）
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v132
-
• 你當時想採取哪個遊戲行動？
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• 你想觸發這個遊戲行動時做了什麼？
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
-
• 當你試著這麼做時發生了什麼（錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...）？
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v132
-
• 問題發生在遊戲的哪一步？（目前遊戲指示是什麼）
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• 當你試著進行遊戲動作時發生了什麼（錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...）？
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v132
-
• 請描述顯示問題。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v132
-
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎？若為真，其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時？
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v132
-
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議，以便讓人一目了然。
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v132
案件沿革
Right now it works as intended by me. Randal copies all the abilities around him from other Defenders and from other Regions.
But you are right with wording of the card: "Your Turn" and "Use abilities".
I think I will get other reports about Randals ability not working, when I exclude specific abilities from beeing copied. Right now it feels the the most reports are for Randal anyway.
When I exclude the Safeguard Ability from the Plains Region, I should probably exclude some more abilities:
- Um'Taks Berserk: Use Sacrifice multiple times -> This is not an ability that is actively "used". So it would not match the "Use abilities" wording.
- Adelphos Transport: move another Defender together with you -> also passive ability
- Ezru Courage: Reduce Threat at the start of your Turn -> yes "Your Turn", bit again passive abilit. You do not "use the ability".
- Laishom Command: When you draw your Defender card -> its not your turn and its not an ability to use.
- Pteryx Maneuver: When you defend -> also a "defend" effect like the Plains Safeguard.
- Oryk Matyr: after defending lose HP instead of defending player -> its not your turn and its not an ability to use.
In case Randal plays together with only the characters mentioned above, he can not copy anything from the Defenders and is kind of useless. I do not know if copying Region abilities of nearby Regions is still enough to let Randal be an useful character.
But I am still interested in your opinion! (Implementing a fix for this is not a big deal)
I think there's certainly room for debate on what "Use abilities" exactly means, and there can be a spectrum of reasonable interpretations. But I believe the "On your turn" phrase is much more clear cut, so I would suggest limiting the scope of this round of potential changes to focusing on this criteria, and see what the downstream impact is.
I believe the Plains (Safeguard) ability is the only one from the regions that falls under this category, and implementation-wise, I suspect the programming logic for the Plains (Safeguard) could be essentially identical to the Desert (Mirage). If this were the only change you made, that could be a reasonable choice.
However, if you decide you want to consider "On your turn" regarding copying other Defenders' abilities, here are my thoughts (again I'm ignoring the active/passive issue for this ticket):
- Ezru Courage: Agreed that is your turn, therefore enable/disable it based on your active/passive decision.
- Laishom Command: My interpretation is that "As soon as your Defender card is drawn", it is already your turn, because the end of that ability says "...and then continue your turn", not "...and then start your turn". Therefore enable/disable it based on your active/passive decision.
- Lealith Retribution: Not your turn when you would defend, so would never apply
- Oryk Martyr: Not your turn when your teammate would defend, so would never apply
- Oryk Strong: Can be during your turn, Active/passive decision
- Um'Tak Berserk: During your turn, Active/passive decision
- Adelphos: Both abilities are during your turn, both are active/passive decision
- Harpier: Cleave is clearly during your turn and active, Iron Hide is defend, so would never apply
- Pteryx Maneuver: Defend, so would never apply
The other champions I didn't mention have abilities clearly during your turn and active.
Finally, regarding your concern about Randal still being useful if some abilities are excluded, I would say that even if NONE of the other Defenders' abilities were available to Randal and if the Safeguard ability were only available while ON the Plains, I believe Randal is by far the most overpowered Defender, because his action economy is incredible (when you can move less, you can do way more things) and even provides compounding value when the Coast is on the Dispatch side. For example I'm currently in a game with Coast (Dispatch) on the left and Forest (Enchant) on the right, and I essentially never need to leave the Capital City, because I can Dispatch my teammate and/or Enchant, and automatically heal to full so I can Sacrifice freely. I'm not only saving my own actions but also my teammate's. The game is on highest difficulty and I expect to tackle it very easily.
Let me know your thoughts and what you decide!
I think you persuaded me when you just focus on the "your turn" aspect of the wording. Because Use Ability is not defined very well.
Just in case you are interested: The implementation is straight forward. I will mark all the applicable abilities as "in-your-turn"-abilities and Randal will only copy these.
- Safeguard
- IronHide
- Maneuver
- Martyr
- Retribution
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