所有案件
蓋亞計劃 的案件
#50676: "Add Confirm and/or undo button for all action steps that are able"
#50676: "Add Confirm and/or undo button for all action steps that are able"
這是關於哪方面的案件?
發生什麼事? 請從下方選擇
建議:依我所見,有些調整將大幅增進遊戲完成度
發生什麼事? 請從下方選擇
建議:依我所見,有些調整將大幅增進遊戲完成度
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# | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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細節描述
• 如果可以的話,請轉貼螢幕顯示的錯誤訊息。
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• 請說明你當時想做什麼,你做了什麼,然後發生了什麼事
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Safari v14.1
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議,以便讓人一目了然。
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Safari v14.1
• 當你不能動作時,螢幕上顯示什麼?(螢幕全黑?部份遊戲介面?錯誤訊息?)
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Safari v14.1
• 遊戲規則的哪部分在 BGA 版本有所錯漏?
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• 這項違反規則之處可否在遊戲重播中看到?若可以是在哪步?(重播時左上角資訊)
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Safari v14.1
• 你當時想採取哪個遊戲行動?
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• 你想觸發這個遊戲行動時做了什麼?
• 當你試著這麼做時發生了什麼(錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...)?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Safari v14.1
• 問題發生在遊戲的哪一步?(當前遊戲指示是什麼)
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• 當你試著進行遊戲動作時發生了什麼(錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...)?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Safari v14.1
• 請描述顯示問題。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Safari v14.1
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議,以便讓人一目了然。
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Safari v14.1
案件沿革
2021年10月14日 21:19 • Kayvon • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Thank you for the suggestion. We like the idea of easy undo buttons, but we've decided not to implement this for two reasons:
1) It goes against BGA's undo policy: boardgamearena.com/doc/BGA_Undo_policy
2) Implementing this in a clean way (i.e. a way that doesn't force all players' browsers to reset) is a significant undertaking and the effort doesn't justify the benefit
Sorry, we really would like an easy way to make this happen. It's a frequent requests on all games I've seen.
1) It goes against BGA's undo policy: boardgamearena.com/doc/BGA_Undo_policy
2) Implementing this in a clean way (i.e. a way that doesn't force all players' browsers to reset) is a significant undertaking and the effort doesn't justify the benefit
Sorry, we really would like an easy way to make this happen. It's a frequent requests on all games I've seen.
2021年10月14日 22:31 • GTSchemer • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
@Kayvon which part of BGA's undo policy is this against? I looked at that page but I am confused what you mean.
2021年10月14日 22:31 • Mogri • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
"As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves."
2021年10月14日 22:36 • GTSchemer • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
I would also note it says:
'To know if this is a good idea to propose an undo, ask yourself the question: "when playing in real life, will my opponents authorize me to take back this move?". Depending on your answer, you should choose to provide an Undo, to not provide an Undo, or maybe to propose an Undo as an option for the game.'
Similarly, they mention Tzolk'in (a significantly lighter weight game) as an example of "Games with a complex serie of actions are an "exception" to BGA Undo policy."
Lastly, I'll note the guidelines state, 'To conclude: we may allow a player to undo a move caused by a "misclick", but we shouldn't allow a player to undo a bad move he plays consciously.'
Gaia Project already has a very nice undo/confirm for the Convert process, for example -- I am very glad this was implemented.
'To know if this is a good idea to propose an undo, ask yourself the question: "when playing in real life, will my opponents authorize me to take back this move?". Depending on your answer, you should choose to provide an Undo, to not provide an Undo, or maybe to propose an Undo as an option for the game.'
Similarly, they mention Tzolk'in (a significantly lighter weight game) as an example of "Games with a complex serie of actions are an "exception" to BGA Undo policy."
Lastly, I'll note the guidelines state, 'To conclude: we may allow a player to undo a move caused by a "misclick", but we shouldn't allow a player to undo a bad move he plays consciously.'
Gaia Project already has a very nice undo/confirm for the Convert process, for example -- I am very glad this was implemented.
2021年10月14日 22:43 • Mogri • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Similarly, you are asked to confirm or cancel after selecting a planet for a build/upgrade action, selecting planets for a federation, selecting a research track, passing, and so on. What can you accidentally click on without the possibility to change your mind?
Off the top of my head, that list includes things like the Nevlas free action, but I don't think it includes anything that involves the map or board.
Off the top of my head, that list includes things like the Nevlas free action, but I don't think it includes anything that involves the map or board.
2021年10月14日 22:53 • GTSchemer • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
That's a good question! I agree there are confirm prompts at most steps where a misclick might happen.
2021年10月14日 23:12 • Kayvon • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
I appreciate your notes on the BGA policy. If that were the only reason, we might be able to make a case for implementing it anyway. With both reasons in place, I'm afraid it's not a viable option for us right now.
Fortunately, confirmations are required at key points to prevent misclicks, which are usually the same points at which real life players would allow you to change your move anyway. ("I didn't mean to put these satellites here... let me rethink those... oh, and take this federation tile instead.")
As mentioned, I understand this is a common request on *many* games.
Fortunately, confirmations are required at key points to prevent misclicks, which are usually the same points at which real life players would allow you to change your move anyway. ("I didn't mean to put these satellites here... let me rethink those... oh, and take this federation tile instead.")
As mentioned, I understand this is a common request on *many* games.
2021年11月14日 11:59 • Ganesha888 • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Terra Mystica does it to the point of the last interaction with other players. Would remove the need to confirm all the single steps, too ;-)
Maybe let us roll back conversions as long as possible (ressources gained that way have not been used, same round)? Actually got me by surprise that it is not possible, since I'm used to it from TM.
Maybe let us roll back conversions as long as possible (ressources gained that way have not been used, same round)? Actually got me by surprise that it is not possible, since I'm used to it from TM.
2021年11月15日 11:24 • VortexSurfer • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
There are many situations where an undo would be useful.
E.g. when charging power due to tech gain, it is not possible to undo in order to do conversions.
I second the suggestion of implementing the undo as in Terra Mystica.
E.g. when charging power due to tech gain, it is not possible to undo in order to do conversions.
I second the suggestion of implementing the undo as in Terra Mystica.
2021年11月16日 21:15 • Kayvon • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
BGA's undo policy states:
"As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves.
"Undo are painful for opponents, in real world and online. Some players may also use Undo to 'test' situations while they should just think instead.
"In many cases, proposing an 'Undo' means also adding an extra step, which is not good for the game interface."
While we are aware that TM is a similar game, it doesn't override BGA's undo policy. Even if it did, implementing undo isn't simply a copy-paste from their code. The good news it that BGA is pretty open with allowing additions to their code base, so it's possible an industrious fan may come along in the future and add it in.
"As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves.
"Undo are painful for opponents, in real world and online. Some players may also use Undo to 'test' situations while they should just think instead.
"In many cases, proposing an 'Undo' means also adding an extra step, which is not good for the game interface."
While we are aware that TM is a similar game, it doesn't override BGA's undo policy. Even if it did, implementing undo isn't simply a copy-paste from their code. The good news it that BGA is pretty open with allowing additions to their code base, so it's possible an industrious fan may come along in the future and add it in.
2021年11月17日 10:30 • Babbuc49 • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
I wanted to add that even if you don’t want to add undo for the whole turn there should at least be a possibility to undo conversions within the same turn (again just like TM) both because misclicks can and will happen and because a last minute change of mind as long as it’s still your turn should be acceptable
2021年11月17日 17:36 • zachhorn117 • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Having to confirm every action you take during a turn isn't great UX, there should be one confirm/undo option at the end of your turn (or before other players charge power from your action like in TM) imho.
I also greatly dislike not being able to undo my conversions during my turn like I can in TM, to echo Babbuc49.
Please, please. please reconsider implementing this at some point. TM wasn't perfect when it first launched on here either, and it took years of feedback and tweaks to get it to where it is now, which is very well regarded.
I can't imagine GP going into Beta then Full release won't create many suggestions for an undo button from users who are used to having that option in TM and other heavier euros on here.
All that being said, thank you so much for getting GP on here lol.
I also greatly dislike not being able to undo my conversions during my turn like I can in TM, to echo Babbuc49.
Please, please. please reconsider implementing this at some point. TM wasn't perfect when it first launched on here either, and it took years of feedback and tweaks to get it to where it is now, which is very well regarded.
I can't imagine GP going into Beta then Full release won't create many suggestions for an undo button from users who are used to having that option in TM and other heavier euros on here.
All that being said, thank you so much for getting GP on here lol.
2021年11月23日 21:12 • Meeplelover • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
If you aren't going to add an undo then please add some commentary for wasted, bad moves. I did a double terraform on a space which only required 1 terraform and could not undo. I also converted 2 green things to workers because I thought I could build 2 mines on 2 planets and could not undo that either
2021年11月25日 13:33 • incredibul • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
As a UX Designer, I heavily disagree with BGAs Undo Policy. Especially in complex games like Gaia Project. The wording "Players need to think" is fair if you finished your move, but if the error did happen while did your move, it's unnecessariliy punishing.
- Games on BGA are originally designed to be played with physical components. There is an error source in a game like Gaia Project that would never happen in real life. Those are small things like picking the wrong Academy or upgrading the wrong building. The player has a visual disconnect between boardstate and question dialogue, especially their own player board. In a physical game, the player would have taken the right piece in the first place. Undo is a good solution to give the player the opportunity to inspect the boardstate that they would much more actively create in a physical game.
- Gaia Project is, especially in the first two rounds, quite punishing if you do something wrong. It can mean that you already know the entire 2-3 hours of playing the game will result in a loss.
- Playing with my gaming group once every week digitally (because of corona), Analysis Paralysis skyrockets for games that have no undo.
- Not offering Undo is a cardinal sin of User Experience Design uxdesign.cc/always-have-a-back-button-4007e124cefa . All the usual reasons for this apply. (In the link, even a real time computer game like DOTA implemented an undo)
- BGA says "Users have to think". But Users should think about awesome strategies or how to improve our world or the multitude of things that happen in their life, not how to make sure they won't commit an error (that usually would not happen in the real game.
- Games on BGA are originally designed to be played with physical components. There is an error source in a game like Gaia Project that would never happen in real life. Those are small things like picking the wrong Academy or upgrading the wrong building. The player has a visual disconnect between boardstate and question dialogue, especially their own player board. In a physical game, the player would have taken the right piece in the first place. Undo is a good solution to give the player the opportunity to inspect the boardstate that they would much more actively create in a physical game.
- Gaia Project is, especially in the first two rounds, quite punishing if you do something wrong. It can mean that you already know the entire 2-3 hours of playing the game will result in a loss.
- Playing with my gaming group once every week digitally (because of corona), Analysis Paralysis skyrockets for games that have no undo.
- Not offering Undo is a cardinal sin of User Experience Design uxdesign.cc/always-have-a-back-button-4007e124cefa . All the usual reasons for this apply. (In the link, even a real time computer game like DOTA implemented an undo)
- BGA says "Users have to think". But Users should think about awesome strategies or how to improve our world or the multitude of things that happen in their life, not how to make sure they won't commit an error (that usually would not happen in the real game.
2021年11月25日 16:11 • Kayvon • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Incredibul, have you considered reaching out to BGA about your opinion on their policy? We don't control their policy and, as far as I know, they don't read the individual bug reports.
Their policy is half the reason I'm not implementing undo for Gaia Project. The other half is that I don't want to volunteer 16 hours to implement a feature that I don't feel is needed, though I'm not personally opposed to the idea if industrious fan comes along in the future and adds it in. Like most optional features, having an extra one doesn't really affect me.
Their policy is half the reason I'm not implementing undo for Gaia Project. The other half is that I don't want to volunteer 16 hours to implement a feature that I don't feel is needed, though I'm not personally opposed to the idea if industrious fan comes along in the future and adds it in. Like most optional features, having an extra one doesn't really affect me.
2021年11月25日 18:51 • Deeyo • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Things i have done Mistakenly with 6 games under my belt.
- clicking research station instead of Planetary Institute.
- Misclicking approve conversion button while confirming from phone.
Of course with each game you become more careful. Still it is a long/planning game, even experienced players can do mistakes. It is a pity when game becomes a drag for the person that committed the mistake.
- clicking research station instead of Planetary Institute.
- Misclicking approve conversion button while confirming from phone.
Of course with each game you become more careful. Still it is a long/planning game, even experienced players can do mistakes. It is a pity when game becomes a drag for the person that committed the mistake.
2021年11月28日 0:11 • Diagonal • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Reading the undo policy there appears to be a proviso for exactly the sort of thing you might need to do in Gaia Project "The typical example is a complex strategy game with a long serie of actions during your turn.".
Stuff like converting resources to try and build a 4th research station, or not realising the planet you wanted to build a mine on had just been taken by another player.
The link you provided detailes a relatively simple (but ugly) undo using undoSavePoint, which could even be an optional feature like you say.
Stuff like converting resources to try and build a 4th research station, or not realising the planet you wanted to build a mine on had just been taken by another player.
The link you provided detailes a relatively simple (but ugly) undo using undoSavePoint, which could even be an optional feature like you say.
2021年11月28日 0:32 • Mogri • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Gaia Project is a complex strategy game, but two actions hardly qualifies as a long series.
2021年12月 2日 10:03 • Martym • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
A Undo button on conversion would be very helpful as this is a different screen and especially as Conversions are not visible on player board (not until the end of the game)
2021年12月13日 14:20 • Corwin007 • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Agreed. I just converted my last gaiaformer as Baltaks (forgot it was the last), tried to undo, but it's nowhere in site.
2021年12月17日 22:08 • Otis480 • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
I would also appreciate if a possibility to undo moves would be implemented in a similar way than in Terra Mystica. As long as the move-timer is not reset I do not see any problems with undo. After a move is totally confirmed undos should not be allowed, which follows from the boardgamearena policy.
Nevertheless: Thanks so much for implementig one of my all time favourite games on this site :-)
Nevertheless: Thanks so much for implementig one of my all time favourite games on this site :-)
2022年 2月27日 9:42 • Diablange74 • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Hi,
Like many players around here, I think an undo button, at least for conversion steps, would be a good idea. It doesn't have any impact on other players turns and fast clicks do happen... Not having an undo button at this step feels like over-punishing, the game is already complex and punishing enough if you take bad decisions, this should not be an additionnal punishment. :)
+1 to the remarks comparing to TM...
Like many players around here, I think an undo button, at least for conversion steps, would be a good idea. It doesn't have any impact on other players turns and fast clicks do happen... Not having an undo button at this step feels like over-punishing, the game is already complex and punishing enough if you take bad decisions, this should not be an additionnal punishment. :)
+1 to the remarks comparing to TM...
2022年 3月27日 22:49 • JamTangle • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
A restart turn button exists in so many games on here (Castles of Burgundy off the top of my head). I recently chose upgrade building and selected a Research Station. All fine so far. Then I realised that I could not select the advanced tech tile I wanted because I meant to form a federation first. But it was already too late and I had to select a different tech tile. In a game where resources are meticulously planned out it was a killing blow for me. And something at the table that would have been a quickly and easily rectified. This game needs a restart turn option and I hope that the developers realise this is something possible for their game within BGA and look to implement it in the future.
2022年 3月27日 22:53 • Kayvon • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
BGA's undo policy states:
"As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves.
"Undo are painful for opponents, in real world and online. Some players may also use Undo to 'test' situations while they should just think instead.
"In many cases, proposing an 'Undo' means also adding an extra step, which is not good for the game interface."
I believe this conversation has run its course. I would invite those interested in in changing the policy to comment here instead: boardgamearena.com/bug?id=13887
"As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves.
"Undo are painful for opponents, in real world and online. Some players may also use Undo to 'test' situations while they should just think instead.
"In many cases, proposing an 'Undo' means also adding an extra step, which is not good for the game interface."
I believe this conversation has run its course. I would invite those interested in in changing the policy to comment here instead: boardgamearena.com/bug?id=13887
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bug?id=50676