#53874: "Suggested algorithm for map configurations (same as hol.es algorithm) "
這是關於哪方面的案件？
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細節描述
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• 如果可以的話，請轉貼螢幕顯示的錯誤訊息。
The existing algorithms for placing down a map and having the last player rotate the tiles is not an excellent balancing mechanic, especially in a 4 player game where the third player is not likely to get a great choice of faction.
The now-defunct website gaia-project.hol.es had an algorithm which basically everyone liked a lot. This algorithm is described in this BGG thread boardgamegeek.com/thread/1960859/online-game-generator-map-board-smartphone-friendl/page/2, and I will repeat it for clarity here:
The algorithm is this:
1. Randomly place the required number of tiles, using the correct side of tiles 5, 6, and 7 as appropriate to the number of players, and rotate them randomly.
2. No clusters of 5 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) are allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 5 or more. If there are any, discard this map and roll again.
3. Only one cluster of 4 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) is allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 4 contiguous planets. If there are 2 or more such clusters, discard this map and roll again.
4. The closest that 2 planets of the same homeworld type may be to each other is Nav3. If there are any planets of any type except gaia or transdim which are within Nav2 range of each other, discard this map and roll again.
5. Every planet must have another planet of any type within Nav2 range of it. If there is any planet that is at least 3 hexes away from any other planet, discard this map and roll again.
6. Use this map -
• 請說明你當時想做什麼，你做了什麼，然後發生了什麼事
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v96
-
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
The existing algorithms for placing down a map and having the last player rotate the tiles is not an excellent balancing mechanic, especially in a 4 player game where the third player is not likely to get a great choice of faction.
The now-defunct website gaia-project.hol.es had an algorithm which basically everyone liked a lot. This algorithm is described in this BGG thread boardgamegeek.com/thread/1960859/online-game-generator-map-board-smartphone-friendl/page/2, and I will repeat it for clarity here:
The algorithm is this:
1. Randomly place the required number of tiles, using the correct side of tiles 5, 6, and 7 as appropriate to the number of players, and rotate them randomly.
2. No clusters of 5 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) are allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 5 or more. If there are any, discard this map and roll again.
3. Only one cluster of 4 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) is allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 4 contiguous planets. If there are 2 or more such clusters, discard this map and roll again.
4. The closest that 2 planets of the same homeworld type may be to each other is Nav3. If there are any planets of any type except gaia or transdim which are within Nav2 range of each other, discard this map and roll again.
5. Every planet must have another planet of any type within Nav2 range of it. If there is any planet that is at least 3 hexes away from any other planet, discard this map and roll again.
6. Use this map -
• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎？若為真，其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時？
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v96
-
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議，以便讓人一目了然。
The existing algorithms for placing down a map and having the last player rotate the tiles is not an excellent balancing mechanic, especially in a 4 player game where the third player is not likely to get a great choice of faction.
The now-defunct website gaia-project.hol.es had an algorithm which basically everyone liked a lot. This algorithm is described in this BGG thread boardgamegeek.com/thread/1960859/online-game-generator-map-board-smartphone-friendl/page/2, and I will repeat it for clarity here:
The algorithm is this:
1. Randomly place the required number of tiles, using the correct side of tiles 5, 6, and 7 as appropriate to the number of players, and rotate them randomly.
2. No clusters of 5 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) are allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 5 or more. If there are any, discard this map and roll again.
3. Only one cluster of 4 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) is allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 4 contiguous planets. If there are 2 or more such clusters, discard this map and roll again.
4. The closest that 2 planets of the same homeworld type may be to each other is Nav3. If there are any planets of any type except gaia or transdim which are within Nav2 range of each other, discard this map and roll again.
5. Every planet must have another planet of any type within Nav2 range of it. If there is any planet that is at least 3 hexes away from any other planet, discard this map and roll again.
6. Use this map • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v96
-
• 當你不能動作時，螢幕上顯示什麼？（螢幕全黑？部份遊戲介面？錯誤訊息？）
The existing algorithms for placing down a map and having the last player rotate the tiles is not an excellent balancing mechanic, especially in a 4 player game where the third player is not likely to get a great choice of faction.
The now-defunct website gaia-project.hol.es had an algorithm which basically everyone liked a lot. This algorithm is described in this BGG thread boardgamegeek.com/thread/1960859/online-game-generator-map-board-smartphone-friendl/page/2, and I will repeat it for clarity here:
The algorithm is this:
1. Randomly place the required number of tiles, using the correct side of tiles 5, 6, and 7 as appropriate to the number of players, and rotate them randomly.
2. No clusters of 5 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) are allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 5 or more. If there are any, discard this map and roll again.
3. Only one cluster of 4 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) is allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 4 contiguous planets. If there are 2 or more such clusters, discard this map and roll again.
4. The closest that 2 planets of the same homeworld type may be to each other is Nav3. If there are any planets of any type except gaia or transdim which are within Nav2 range of each other, discard this map and roll again.
5. Every planet must have another planet of any type within Nav2 range of it. If there is any planet that is at least 3 hexes away from any other planet, discard this map and roll again.
6. Use this map • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v96
-
• 遊戲規則的哪部分在 BGA 版本有所錯漏？
The existing algorithms for placing down a map and having the last player rotate the tiles is not an excellent balancing mechanic, especially in a 4 player game where the third player is not likely to get a great choice of faction.
The now-defunct website gaia-project.hol.es had an algorithm which basically everyone liked a lot. This algorithm is described in this BGG thread boardgamegeek.com/thread/1960859/online-game-generator-map-board-smartphone-friendl/page/2, and I will repeat it for clarity here:
The algorithm is this:
1. Randomly place the required number of tiles, using the correct side of tiles 5, 6, and 7 as appropriate to the number of players, and rotate them randomly.
2. No clusters of 5 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) are allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 5 or more. If there are any, discard this map and roll again.
3. Only one cluster of 4 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) is allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 4 contiguous planets. If there are 2 or more such clusters, discard this map and roll again.
4. The closest that 2 planets of the same homeworld type may be to each other is Nav3. If there are any planets of any type except gaia or transdim which are within Nav2 range of each other, discard this map and roll again.
5. Every planet must have another planet of any type within Nav2 range of it. If there is any planet that is at least 3 hexes away from any other planet, discard this map and roll again.
6. Use this map -
• 這項違反規則之處可否在遊戲重播中看到？若可以是在哪步？（重播時左上角資訊）
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v96
-
• 你當時想採取哪個遊戲行動？
The existing algorithms for placing down a map and having the last player rotate the tiles is not an excellent balancing mechanic, especially in a 4 player game where the third player is not likely to get a great choice of faction.
The now-defunct website gaia-project.hol.es had an algorithm which basically everyone liked a lot. This algorithm is described in this BGG thread boardgamegeek.com/thread/1960859/online-game-generator-map-board-smartphone-friendl/page/2, and I will repeat it for clarity here:
The algorithm is this:
1. Randomly place the required number of tiles, using the correct side of tiles 5, 6, and 7 as appropriate to the number of players, and rotate them randomly.
2. No clusters of 5 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) are allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 5 or more. If there are any, discard this map and roll again.
3. Only one cluster of 4 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) is allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 4 contiguous planets. If there are 2 or more such clusters, discard this map and roll again.
4. The closest that 2 planets of the same homeworld type may be to each other is Nav3. If there are any planets of any type except gaia or transdim which are within Nav2 range of each other, discard this map and roll again.
5. Every planet must have another planet of any type within Nav2 range of it. If there is any planet that is at least 3 hexes away from any other planet, discard this map and roll again.
6. Use this map -
• 你想觸發這個遊戲行動時做了什麼？
-
• 當你試著這麼做時發生了什麼（錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...）？
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v96
-
• 問題發生在遊戲的哪一步？（目前遊戲指示是什麼）
The existing algorithms for placing down a map and having the last player rotate the tiles is not an excellent balancing mechanic, especially in a 4 player game where the third player is not likely to get a great choice of faction.
The now-defunct website gaia-project.hol.es had an algorithm which basically everyone liked a lot. This algorithm is described in this BGG thread boardgamegeek.com/thread/1960859/online-game-generator-map-board-smartphone-friendl/page/2, and I will repeat it for clarity here:
The algorithm is this:
1. Randomly place the required number of tiles, using the correct side of tiles 5, 6, and 7 as appropriate to the number of players, and rotate them randomly.
2. No clusters of 5 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) are allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 5 or more. If there are any, discard this map and roll again.
3. Only one cluster of 4 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) is allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 4 contiguous planets. If there are 2 or more such clusters, discard this map and roll again.
4. The closest that 2 planets of the same homeworld type may be to each other is Nav3. If there are any planets of any type except gaia or transdim which are within Nav2 range of each other, discard this map and roll again.
5. Every planet must have another planet of any type within Nav2 range of it. If there is any planet that is at least 3 hexes away from any other planet, discard this map and roll again.
6. Use this map -
• 當你試著進行遊戲動作時發生了什麼（錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...）？
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v96
-
• 請描述顯示問題。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
The existing algorithms for placing down a map and having the last player rotate the tiles is not an excellent balancing mechanic, especially in a 4 player game where the third player is not likely to get a great choice of faction.
The now-defunct website gaia-project.hol.es had an algorithm which basically everyone liked a lot. This algorithm is described in this BGG thread boardgamegeek.com/thread/1960859/online-game-generator-map-board-smartphone-friendl/page/2, and I will repeat it for clarity here:
The algorithm is this:
1. Randomly place the required number of tiles, using the correct side of tiles 5, 6, and 7 as appropriate to the number of players, and rotate them randomly.
2. No clusters of 5 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) are allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 5 or more. If there are any, discard this map and roll again.
3. Only one cluster of 4 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) is allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 4 contiguous planets. If there are 2 or more such clusters, discard this map and roll again.
4. The closest that 2 planets of the same homeworld type may be to each other is Nav3. If there are any planets of any type except gaia or transdim which are within Nav2 range of each other, discard this map and roll again.
5. Every planet must have another planet of any type within Nav2 range of it. If there is any planet that is at least 3 hexes away from any other planet, discard this map and roll again.
6. Use this map • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v96
-
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
The existing algorithms for placing down a map and having the last player rotate the tiles is not an excellent balancing mechanic, especially in a 4 player game where the third player is not likely to get a great choice of faction.
The now-defunct website gaia-project.hol.es had an algorithm which basically everyone liked a lot. This algorithm is described in this BGG thread boardgamegeek.com/thread/1960859/online-game-generator-map-board-smartphone-friendl/page/2, and I will repeat it for clarity here:
The algorithm is this:
1. Randomly place the required number of tiles, using the correct side of tiles 5, 6, and 7 as appropriate to the number of players, and rotate them randomly.
2. No clusters of 5 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) are allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 5 or more. If there are any, discard this map and roll again.
3. Only one cluster of 4 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) is allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 4 contiguous planets. If there are 2 or more such clusters, discard this map and roll again.
4. The closest that 2 planets of the same homeworld type may be to each other is Nav3. If there are any planets of any type except gaia or transdim which are within Nav2 range of each other, discard this map and roll again.
5. Every planet must have another planet of any type within Nav2 range of it. If there is any planet that is at least 3 hexes away from any other planet, discard this map and roll again.
6. Use this map -
• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎？若為真，其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時？
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v96
-
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議，以便讓人一目了然。
The existing algorithms for placing down a map and having the last player rotate the tiles is not an excellent balancing mechanic, especially in a 4 player game where the third player is not likely to get a great choice of faction.
The now-defunct website gaia-project.hol.es had an algorithm which basically everyone liked a lot. This algorithm is described in this BGG thread boardgamegeek.com/thread/1960859/online-game-generator-map-board-smartphone-friendl/page/2, and I will repeat it for clarity here:
The algorithm is this:
1. Randomly place the required number of tiles, using the correct side of tiles 5, 6, and 7 as appropriate to the number of players, and rotate them randomly.
2. No clusters of 5 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) are allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 5 or more. If there are any, discard this map and roll again.
3. Only one cluster of 4 contiguous planets of any type (including transdim) is allowed. Check to see if there are any clusters of 4 contiguous planets. If there are 2 or more such clusters, discard this map and roll again.
4. The closest that 2 planets of the same homeworld type may be to each other is Nav3. If there are any planets of any type except gaia or transdim which are within Nav2 range of each other, discard this map and roll again.
5. Every planet must have another planet of any type within Nav2 range of it. If there is any planet that is at least 3 hexes away from any other planet, discard this map and roll again.
6. Use this map • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v96
案件沿革
Fortunately, we have a random map generator that requires no rotation at all. It sounds like exactly what you're looking for, allowing an intelligent algorithm to balance out all factions. Try it out sometime -- you may like it!
Indeed, the last player rotation is straight out of the rulebook, at my game group we have tried this and found that it doesn't work very well for 4 player games. I agree that BGA shouldn't remove this as an option, but probably the hol.es algorithm without tile rotation is a better default setting in my opinion.
I have tried the random map algorithm, the main difference between this algorithm and hol.es is that it allows many clusters of 4. Which makes navigation less important, especially for a player that is going hard on gaiaforming and collecting a lot of transdim planets, since these tend to be clustered together.
I think the community has settled on preferring the hol.es algorithm, based on the number of comments on BGG either recommending it or asking for a replacement since that site was retired.
For my own map generation algorithm, I played around with varying considerations -- far more detailed than even what you've listed to ensure a balanced approach for all colors. After trying varying sizes of cluster, I settled on up to 4 planets in a cluster. In practice, 5 was too big and 3 wasn't varied enough.
I'm not trying to reproduce someone else's algorithm, so it's definitely different than the defunct website. It won't be a default option because it's not in the rulebook. (Actually, the default option is the rulebook's fixed setup, I think. No rotation required!) If you play around with it a bit, I think you'll find the random algorithm I've created is well balanced for all colors, even though the cluster sizes are different than how the former website did it.
為本案件添加內容
- 其他同樣狀況的桌號／步數
- 按 F5 是否解決了這個問題？
- 問題是否發生了好幾次？每次都發生？時好時壞？
- 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
