#61525: "Ending game by swapping tiles does not award monument points"
這是關於哪方面的案件？
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| # | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
|---|
細節描述
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• 如果可以的話，請轉貼螢幕顯示的錯誤訊息。
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. -
• 請說明你當時想做什麼，你做了什麼，然後發生了什麼事
no
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v99
-
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. -
• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎？若為真，其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時？
no
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v99
-
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議，以便讓人一目了然。
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v99
-
• 當你不能動作時，螢幕上顯示什麼？（螢幕全黑？部份遊戲介面？錯誤訊息？）
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v99
-
• 遊戲規則的哪部分在 BGA 版本有所錯漏？
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. -
• 這項違反規則之處可否在遊戲重播中看到？若可以是在哪步？（重播時左上角資訊）
no
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v99
-
• 你當時想採取哪個遊戲行動？
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. -
• 你想觸發這個遊戲行動時做了什麼？
no
-
• 當你試著這麼做時發生了什麼（錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...）？
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v99
-
• 問題發生在遊戲的哪一步？（目前遊戲指示是什麼）
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. -
• 當你試著進行遊戲動作時發生了什麼（錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...）？
no
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v99
-
• 請描述顯示問題。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v99
-
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. -
• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎？若為真，其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時？
no
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v99
-
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議，以便讓人一目了然。
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v99
案件沿革
The game ends when either of the following conditions are met:
‡ Only one or two treasures remain on the board at the
end of a player’s turn, or
‡ A player who is attempting to draw a tile is unable to
because the bag is empty.
At this point all players lower their screens. Each player
determines in which sphere they possess the fewest number
of victory points, with each player freely allocating his treasures
to any sphere(s) (see “Treasure Distribution” on page 12).
The player whose lowest sphere has the highest number of
victory points is the winner. In the case of a tie, the tied players
compare their second lowest spheres, and so on. If multiple
tied players are evenly matched in all four spheres, those players
share the victory.
That reads to me as the game ends immediately upon the failed draw, with no further scoring.
If there has been an official errata stating otherwise it could be changed.
Do you have a link to the Chris Lawson FAQ?
Seems there may be no consensus, but here is a thread on the topic. Chris Lawson actually spoke to Knizia about this.
boardgamegeek.com/thread/2697313/ending-game-tile-swap-and-one-implication
Apparently the original German rules only end the game after both actions and end of turn happens, but the English translation is worded as you posted above indicating the game should end immediately. I know the old BGG implementation of T&E would let the turn play out (both actions+monument points) even when you swapped tiles to end the game.
I hesitate to make a change that is contrary to the rules as written in the most recent rulebook, but also don't want to have the game work differently than experienced players expect...
I especially don't want to add a game option that changes scoring at the very end of the game and surprise anyone playing.
I will need to think on this more, and maybe once the game picks up some more steam on this platform make a players group and discuss weird corner cases such as this in said group.
I have been running the the E&T event at WBC for over a decade (boardgamers.org/eventhistory/e&t.html) and have always allowed the second action and monument points if the first action swap exhausted the tile bag, per the FAQ and designer's intent. Back when E&T was on bgg (and earlier on gametableonline), this is how it was implemented.
I expect that all of the top experienced players (online and over the board) would expect the game rules to match the FAQ.
For the Z-man rules reprint, I would think that was likely an oversight or typographical error instead of a deliberate rules change. The sentence to "A player who is attempting to draw a tile is unable to
because the bag is empty" could be clarified with some extra phrasing, but it becomes awkward english.
images.zmangames.com/filer_public/92/3f/923f8aba-72f1-4aa5-9622-d648ad1a9aa7/kn25_rulebook_web.pdf
I appreciate thenmal's sensitivity (“I hesitate to make a change that is contrary to the rules as written in the most recent rulebook, but also don't want to have the game work differently than experienced players expect...”) but it seems that the absence of this option is what puts the most questions about this implementation.
As the game is probably hard to find in many parts of the world, most new owners of the game learn the rules by acquiring a second-hand copy - and these vary from one version/edition/language to another.
Thenmal: "I especially don't want to add a game option that changes scoring at the very end of the game and surprise anyone playing."
I'm not a programmer, but in several BGA games, a small informative bubble appears when you point your cursor at various options. I imagine this could also be implemented here?...
為本案件添加內容
- 其他同樣狀況的桌號／步數
- 按 F5 是否解決了這個問題？
- 問題是否發生了好幾次？每次都發生？時好時壞？
- 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
