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卡坦島 的案件
#66732: "Using VPs as a tie breaker is not useful"
#66732: "Using VPs as a tie breaker is not useful"
這是關於哪方面的案件?
發生什麼事? 請從下方選擇
建議:依我所見,有些調整將大幅增進遊戲完成度
發生什麼事? 請從下方選擇
建議:依我所見,有些調整將大幅增進遊戲完成度
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# | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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細節描述
• 如果可以的話,請轉貼螢幕顯示的錯誤訊息。
I can actually hear Motty saying, "And I don't want to bore you with the mathematics here, but if it's all square at full time, the tie goes to the team which scored the most goals in the ninety minutes."
If you're British and of a certain age, you'll get that.• 請說明你當時想做什麼,你做了什麼,然後發生了什麼事
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
I can actually hear Motty saying, "And I don't want to bore you with the mathematics here, but if it's all square at full time, the tie goes to the team which scored the most goals in the ninety minutes."
If you're British and of a certain age, you'll get that.• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎?若為真,其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議,以便讓人一目了然。
I can actually hear Motty saying, "And I don't want to bore you with the mathematics here, but if it's all square at full time, the tie goes to the team which scored the most goals in the ninety minutes."
If you're British and of a certain age, you'll get that.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 當你不能動作時,螢幕上顯示什麼?(螢幕全黑?部份遊戲介面?錯誤訊息?)
I can actually hear Motty saying, "And I don't want to bore you with the mathematics here, but if it's all square at full time, the tie goes to the team which scored the most goals in the ninety minutes."
If you're British and of a certain age, you'll get that.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 遊戲規則的哪部分在 BGA 版本有所錯漏?
I can actually hear Motty saying, "And I don't want to bore you with the mathematics here, but if it's all square at full time, the tie goes to the team which scored the most goals in the ninety minutes."
If you're British and of a certain age, you'll get that.• 這項違反規則之處可否在遊戲重播中看到?若可以是在哪步?(重播時左上角資訊)
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 你當時想採取哪個遊戲行動?
I can actually hear Motty saying, "And I don't want to bore you with the mathematics here, but if it's all square at full time, the tie goes to the team which scored the most goals in the ninety minutes."
If you're British and of a certain age, you'll get that.• 你想觸發這個遊戲行動時做了什麼?
• 當你試著這麼做時發生了什麼(錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...)?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 問題發生在遊戲的哪一步?(當前遊戲指示是什麼)
I can actually hear Motty saying, "And I don't want to bore you with the mathematics here, but if it's all square at full time, the tie goes to the team which scored the most goals in the ninety minutes."
If you're British and of a certain age, you'll get that.• 當你試著進行遊戲動作時發生了什麼(錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...)?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 請描述顯示問題。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
I can actually hear Motty saying, "And I don't want to bore you with the mathematics here, but if it's all square at full time, the tie goes to the team which scored the most goals in the ninety minutes."
If you're British and of a certain age, you'll get that.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
I can actually hear Motty saying, "And I don't want to bore you with the mathematics here, but if it's all square at full time, the tie goes to the team which scored the most goals in the ninety minutes."
If you're British and of a certain age, you'll get that.• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎?若為真,其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議,以便讓人一目了然。
I can actually hear Motty saying, "And I don't want to bore you with the mathematics here, but if it's all square at full time, the tie goes to the team which scored the most goals in the ninety minutes."
If you're British and of a certain age, you'll get that.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
案件沿革
2022年 8月26日 18:14 • UCJesse • 此建議尚未被開發者分析過:
#294827727 - I had 3 VP. I should have been 2nd on my own
2022年 9月26日 0:36 • Mathew5000 • 此建議尚未被開發者分析過:
The player who wins (reaches 10 VP first) should be considered the winner, with all other players tying for second.
This can make a huge difference in gameplay. At present, players who care about ELO are incentivized to "play to not finish last" whereas in a home game of Catan, they would "play to win". For example, I was just in a three-player game where halfway through, I had 5 points while my opponents had 6 and 8 points. The player in second place decided to target me with the robber everry time (to ensure I didn't get second place) which allowed the other player to cruise to an easy win.
Please, BGA, introduce an option (and make it the default) to play Catan as a win-or-lose game.
This can make a huge difference in gameplay. At present, players who care about ELO are incentivized to "play to not finish last" whereas in a home game of Catan, they would "play to win". For example, I was just in a three-player game where halfway through, I had 5 points while my opponents had 6 and 8 points. The player in second place decided to target me with the robber everry time (to ensure I didn't get second place) which allowed the other player to cruise to an easy win.
Please, BGA, introduce an option (and make it the default) to play Catan as a win-or-lose game.
2022年 9月27日 17:11 • MrBeardy • 此建議尚未被開發者分析過:
I disagree, the ELO weighting keeps people in the game rather than bailing. I've played enough on the old playcatan etc that I've seen the alternative and it's not pretty. If people didn't quit they'd start doing BS trades to try and power 2nd place to overtake 1st and let them win out of spite. ELO ranking based on VP makes people play better not worse.
The current system is the lesser of two evils, and frankly it gives me something to play for when I get a crippled start and know I can't win. I've been quite pleased with my 2nd places where I've come back from nothing. If people know they are worse off for coming last they will play better to avoid it and that makes it a better game all round.
Also if someone keeps robbing you maybe you annoyed them with your trades/robber placement/cutting them off etc.
The current system is the lesser of two evils, and frankly it gives me something to play for when I get a crippled start and know I can't win. I've been quite pleased with my 2nd places where I've come back from nothing. If people know they are worse off for coming last they will play better to avoid it and that makes it a better game all round.
Also if someone keeps robbing you maybe you annoyed them with your trades/robber placement/cutting them off etc.
2022年 9月27日 19:09 • autarkeia • 此建議尚未被開發者分析過:
@Mathew5000
Your scheme would make Catan run counter to pretty much every other game I've played on BGA. On BGA, they're not win or lose games, they're ranked 1/2/3/4, regardless of game rules.
@MrBeardy
I always play hard for second place, or even to go from 4th to 3rd at the end, not because I really care about ELO, I just care about my finish position.
Either way, my point was that using VPs, which determine victory, as a tie-breaker is pretty useless, because it changes nothing. Better just to say same VPS, you're tied, no tie breaker. Other games on BGA use that approach.
Your scheme would make Catan run counter to pretty much every other game I've played on BGA. On BGA, they're not win or lose games, they're ranked 1/2/3/4, regardless of game rules.
@MrBeardy
I always play hard for second place, or even to go from 4th to 3rd at the end, not because I really care about ELO, I just care about my finish position.
Either way, my point was that using VPs, which determine victory, as a tie-breaker is pretty useless, because it changes nothing. Better just to say same VPS, you're tied, no tie breaker. Other games on BGA use that approach.
2022年10月25日 18:32 • autarkeia • 此建議尚未被開發者分析過:
@ufm
Your point here is completely opaque. I can see you're South Korean, so English is presumably a second language for you.
You wrote, "No ELO risk for 3rd/4th places?"
Who, on this thread, spoke about eliminating, introducing, or keeping (or not, to any of those three) ELO risk for 3rd/4th places?
I'll try to make the point of the thread more simple for you.
The game result is decided by "who has the most VPs?"
The tiebreaker for players who share the same number of VPs is: "who has the most VPs?"
That's not me asking the same question twice, that's the game asking the same question twice.
My point, when raising the bug, was that using the same criterion to decide postion initially as you do to break ties thereafter is not useful. The result will never change if you use that approach. Use another criterion to break ties, or abandon the tiebreak altogether.
My point was clear. Your point is not. I don't think you're supporting the bug, and I don't think you're against it.
What are you saying? Whatever that is, it's not relevant to the bug.
Your point here is completely opaque. I can see you're South Korean, so English is presumably a second language for you.
You wrote, "No ELO risk for 3rd/4th places?"
Who, on this thread, spoke about eliminating, introducing, or keeping (or not, to any of those three) ELO risk for 3rd/4th places?
I'll try to make the point of the thread more simple for you.
The game result is decided by "who has the most VPs?"
The tiebreaker for players who share the same number of VPs is: "who has the most VPs?"
That's not me asking the same question twice, that's the game asking the same question twice.
My point, when raising the bug, was that using the same criterion to decide postion initially as you do to break ties thereafter is not useful. The result will never change if you use that approach. Use another criterion to break ties, or abandon the tiebreak altogether.
My point was clear. Your point is not. I don't think you're supporting the bug, and I don't think you're against it.
What are you saying? Whatever that is, it's not relevant to the bug.
2023年 8月 6日 12:40 • sergut • 此建議尚未被開發者分析過:
Saying that VP should not be used as a tie braker is not very useful for the developers. What would you propose as tie brakers in Catan? :-)
Full disclosure: I have seen several options in tournaments, but I do not really care so I will abstain from repeating them here.
Full disclosure: I have seen several options in tournaments, but I do not really care so I will abstain from repeating them here.
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任何可能重現這項錯誤或了解你的建議之相關資訊,都請在此填寫:
- 其他同樣狀況的桌號/步數
- 按 F5 是否解決了這個問題?
- 問題是否發生了好幾次?每次都發生?時好時壞?
- 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
更改案件狀態為:
bug?id=66732