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#12256: "ELO calculation: Joint placements results. "
Hello everyone,
We finally found the good way to implement this.
It concerns only games where the winners win as a team, and losers lose as a team. These games are easy to spot: they are the one where the "1st / 2nd / 3rd" are replaced by "Winners / Losers" in the table results. Examples: Werewolves, Not alone, Coup city state.
For these games, you cannot win ELO if you are a "loser", and you cannot lose ELO if you are a "winner".
Thanks for suggesting this.
#12256: "ELO calculation: Joint placements results. "
發生什麼事? 請從下方選擇
建議:依我所見,下列調整將大幅改善此站
發生什麼事? 請從下方選擇
建議:依我所見,下列調整將大幅改善此站
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# | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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細節描述
• 如果可以的話,請轉貼螢幕顯示的錯誤訊息。
For games like Lewis & Clark and Not Alone where joint placements are common. ELO calculation can take away ELO from a winning players, or ELO points can be awarded to a losing player.• 請說明你當時想做什麼,你做了什麼,然後發生了什麼事
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v73
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議,以便讓人一目了然。
For games like Lewis & Clark and Not Alone where joint placements are common. ELO calculation can take away ELO from a winning players, or ELO points can be awarded to a losing player.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v73
• 當你不能動作時,螢幕上顯示什麼?(螢幕全黑?部份遊戲介面?錯誤訊息?)
For games like Lewis & Clark and Not Alone where joint placements are common. ELO calculation can take away ELO from a winning players, or ELO points can be awarded to a losing player.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v73
• 遊戲規則的哪部分在 BGA 版本有所錯漏?
For games like Lewis & Clark and Not Alone where joint placements are common. ELO calculation can take away ELO from a winning players, or ELO points can be awarded to a losing player.• 這項違反規則之處可否在遊戲重播中看到?若可以是在哪步?(重播時左上角資訊)
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v73
• 你當時想採取哪個遊戲行動?
For games like Lewis & Clark and Not Alone where joint placements are common. ELO calculation can take away ELO from a winning players, or ELO points can be awarded to a losing player.• 你想觸發這個遊戲行動時做了什麼?
• 當你試著這麼做時發生了什麼(錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...)?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v73
• 問題發生在遊戲的哪一步?(當前遊戲指示是什麼)
For games like Lewis & Clark and Not Alone where joint placements are common. ELO calculation can take away ELO from a winning players, or ELO points can be awarded to a losing player.• 當你試著進行遊戲動作時發生了什麼(錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...)?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v73
• 請描述顯示問題。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
For games like Lewis & Clark and Not Alone where joint placements are common. ELO calculation can take away ELO from a winning players, or ELO points can be awarded to a losing player.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v73
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議,以便讓人一目了然。
For games like Lewis & Clark and Not Alone where joint placements are common. ELO calculation can take away ELO from a winning players, or ELO points can be awarded to a losing player.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Google Chrome v73
案件沿革
2019年 4月12日 1:04 • Ossido • 此建議尚未被開發者分析過:
It seems to me that the issue is more related to the implementation of "team games" than to "joint placements". The algorithm shouldn't match you against members of your own team, when updating the elo score.
2019年 4月12日 9:39 • RicardoRix • 此建議尚未被開發者分析過:
@Ossido
the same is true for Lewis & Clark where every loser comes joint 2nd.
the same is true for Lewis & Clark where every loser comes joint 2nd.
2019年 4月14日 14:20 • Yack_san • 此建議尚未被開發者分析過:
For Not Alone - how about each survivor(player) would be individually compared with Player Creature and gain/lose ELO accordingly?
2019年 4月28日 8:02 • DandyDan • 此建議尚未被開發者分析過:
Not Alone game.
Basically, independent of the game outcome, you have a tie with all players in human team, and your score will be adjusted on a value based on ELO difference.
If you have players with higher ELO (and probability of victory is higher) you get a boost to your ELO, if you have players with lower ELO (and probability of victory is lower) you get a drop of your ELO.
This is totally weird.
imgur.com/Nj1pldz
Basically, independent of the game outcome, you have a tie with all players in human team, and your score will be adjusted on a value based on ELO difference.
If you have players with higher ELO (and probability of victory is higher) you get a boost to your ELO, if you have players with lower ELO (and probability of victory is lower) you get a drop of your ELO.
This is totally weird.
imgur.com/Nj1pldz
2019年 5月23日 19:36 • diamant • 此建議尚未被開發者分析過:
ELO calculation, if enabled, is the result of competition between 2 players. There are as many ELO calculations as there were competitions between 2 players in a game.
The bug is that some ELO calculations occur in the absence of any competition between players. It occurs mainly in 2 typical cases :
1) games ending normally, but for games with only one winner, all other players being losers. If the losers cannot be ranked, due to lack of score, you cannot pretend there were competitions between losers, and that these players finished in a tie. Only ELO calculations between the winner and each loser are justified, the other ones are inappropriate.
2) games interrupted due to the departure of a player. It is in a way the opposite of the previous situation: the result is one loser, all other players are winners, and winners are not ranked, following the rules of this website. As in the previous case, only ELO calculations between the loser and each winner are justified, the other ones are inappropriate.
The bug is that some ELO calculations occur in the absence of any competition between players. It occurs mainly in 2 typical cases :
1) games ending normally, but for games with only one winner, all other players being losers. If the losers cannot be ranked, due to lack of score, you cannot pretend there were competitions between losers, and that these players finished in a tie. Only ELO calculations between the winner and each loser are justified, the other ones are inappropriate.
2) games interrupted due to the departure of a player. It is in a way the opposite of the previous situation: the result is one loser, all other players are winners, and winners are not ranked, following the rules of this website. As in the previous case, only ELO calculations between the loser and each winner are justified, the other ones are inappropriate.
2019年 5月29日 12:15 • surtzu • 此建議尚未被開發者分析過:
This same problems occurs in Werewolves when citizens win. It results in a tie of several players, and usually the highest ranked citizen players lose points while having won.
2019年 6月14日 16:07 • Sourisdudesert • 此建議已獲實施:
Hello everyone,
We finally found the good way to implement this.
It concerns only games where the winners win as a team, and losers lose as a team. These games are easy to spot: they are the one where the "1st / 2nd / 3rd" are replaced by "Winners / Losers" in the table results. Examples: Werewolves, Not alone, Coup city state.
For these games, you cannot win ELO if you are a "loser", and you cannot lose ELO if you are a "winner".
Thanks for suggesting this.
2019年12月10日 23:27 • RicardoRix • 此建議已獲實施:
This still doesn't seem right:
There is no reason I (RicardoRix) should gain ELO:
and also Savilov shouldn't be losing ELO to anyone other than Jai:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=60814597
There is no reason I (RicardoRix) should gain ELO:
and also Savilov shouldn't be losing ELO to anyone other than Jai:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=60814597
2021年 5月29日 23:55 • BrenBarn • 此建議已獲實施:
The issue is not just about "losing ELO". The issue is that ELO ratings of team members should not be considered at all in updating a player's ELO ratings. If players A and B are on a team against player C, and the team wins, player A won vs C, player B won vs C, and player C lost vs the others. Players A and B are not competing and their relative ELO ratings should not be considered at all.
2021年 6月 8日 12:42 • Serilo • 此建議已獲實施:
Indeed, if you have a less experienced player in your team - ESPECIALLY if you play Arena, this can happen, then you get punished twice: It is actually more difficult to win due to the less experienced player being in your team AND you lose more if you lose and win less if you win. Doesn't look right...
2021年 6月 9日 1:55 • KongKing123 • 此建議已獲實施:
This (popular) issue has been raised here: boardgamearena.com/bug?id=11297
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任何可能重現這項錯誤或了解你的建議之相關資訊,都請在此填寫:
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- 問題是否發生了好幾次?每次都發生?時好時壞?
- 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
更改案件狀態為:
bug?id=12256