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#22152: "Add Turn Undo"
#22152: "Add Turn Undo"
這是關於哪方面的案件?
發生什麼事? 請從下方選擇
建議:依我所見,有些調整將大幅增進遊戲完成度
發生什麼事? 請從下方選擇
建議:依我所見,有些調整將大幅增進遊戲完成度
請檢查是否已有同課題案件
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# | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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細節描述
• 如果可以的話,請轉貼螢幕顯示的錯誤訊息。
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• 請說明你當時想做什麼,你做了什麼,然後發生了什麼事
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎?若為真,其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議,以便讓人一目了然。
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 當你不能動作時,螢幕上顯示什麼?(螢幕全黑?部份遊戲介面?錯誤訊息?)
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 遊戲規則的哪部分在 BGA 版本有所錯漏?
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• 這項違反規則之處可否在遊戲重播中看到?若可以是在哪步?(重播時左上角資訊)
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 你當時想採取哪個遊戲行動?
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• 你想觸發這個遊戲行動時做了什麼?
• 當你試著這麼做時發生了什麼(錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...)?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 問題發生在遊戲的哪一步?(當前遊戲指示是什麼)
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• 當你試著進行遊戲動作時發生了什麼(錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...)?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 請描述顯示問題。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎?若為真,其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時?
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議,以便讓人一目了然。
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• 你的瀏覽器是什麼?
Mozilla v5
案件沿革
2020年 8月 5日 21:34 • DarkBeerMike • 此建議尚未被開發者分析過:
Consider a checkbox to enable/disable the undo feature. I want it, but other players may feel differently.
2020年 8月 8日 20:23 • Aeneas90 • 此建議尚未被開發者分析過:
Agreed. Undo should be mandatory for all games if hidden information isnt revealed.
2020年 8月 9日 9:33 • ExtraPaul • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
I understand your request.
But "As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves." (en.doc.boardgamearena.com/BGA_Undo_policy)
It's the first time I program a game : I don't want to complexify the code at this time.
Maybe for a futur release...
Meanwhile, a refresh (F5) seems to be a solution.
But "As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves." (en.doc.boardgamearena.com/BGA_Undo_policy)
It's the first time I program a game : I don't want to complexify the code at this time.
Maybe for a futur release...
Meanwhile, a refresh (F5) seems to be a solution.
2020年 8月 9日 16:35 • Aeneas90 • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
Rejected the most upvoted issue because "its my first time and its too hard" doesnt fill me with confidence here. Perhaps see if there's a more experienced dev that can assist.
2020年 8月 9日 16:46 • ExtraPaul • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
I correct my point of view : it's not "to hard", but "too dangerous".
I don't want to loose control of the programming by implementing a not recommended functionnality.
But I keep in mind this request : I hope that players don't expect a 100% perfect game in the first release.
I don't want to loose control of the programming by implementing a not recommended functionnality.
But I keep in mind this request : I hope that players don't expect a 100% perfect game in the first release.
2020年 8月10日 5:57 • ExtraPaul • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
The request #22149 ask to change worker tile place on the board, then confirm.
An UNDO would be easy to program for this state.
But an UNDO on tile actions is very inconvinient : on each action click, animations are launched, scores are updated, notifications are written, database is updated and all players view action in real time.
An UNDO would be easy to program for this state.
But an UNDO on tile actions is very inconvinient : on each action click, animations are launched, scores are updated, notifications are written, database is updated and all players view action in real time.
2020年 8月14日 13:59 • paramesis • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
An Undo action or confirm step is very frequently requested for adaptations where it doesn't exist, and I frequently see developers lean on the guidelines as an authoritative answer to every situation. Any experienced designer will tell you there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all answer. The entire intent of guidelines is to make better adaptations, and it is on the developer to decide where that line is.
Are players having to click confirm buttons too many times?
Are players intentionally playing bad moves or moving pieces around in order to "think"?
Are players frustrated that the interface wouldn't let them take the turn that they wanted to take because they made one misclick? (definitely sounds like the case here).
Are players having to click confirm buttons too many times?
Are players intentionally playing bad moves or moving pieces around in order to "think"?
Are players frustrated that the interface wouldn't let them take the turn that they wanted to take because they made one misclick? (definitely sounds like the case here).
2020年 8月14日 16:46 • ExtraPaul • 開發者需要更詳細的建議內容:
Hello Paramesis.
Imagine that I have four jungle actions to carry out around my worker tile 1-1-1-1 :
- Get 2 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 2 gold
- Get 1 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 4 gold
I can click on any action in any order. Each action update score and notify other players about what's happen.
How the undo must be managed ?
If I get 2 cacao, sale 1 for 2 gold... oh no, mistake, I wanted sale for 4 gold -> Undo.
Then, Undo become available for my first action too ?
What others players see ? Gold back to the tile and score decrease ?
Imagine that I have four jungle actions to carry out around my worker tile 1-1-1-1 :
- Get 2 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 2 gold
- Get 1 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 4 gold
I can click on any action in any order. Each action update score and notify other players about what's happen.
How the undo must be managed ?
If I get 2 cacao, sale 1 for 2 gold... oh no, mistake, I wanted sale for 4 gold -> Undo.
Then, Undo become available for my first action too ?
What others players see ? Gold back to the tile and score decrease ?
2020年 8月14日 17:16 • paramesis • 開發者需要更詳細的建議內容:
There are a few ways you could go about this, but the simplest to implement and the one I would recommend would be database undo.
en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Main_game_logic:_yourgamename.game.php#Undo_moves
This would undo your entire turn. Canceled notification log items would disappear and there would only be one item saying "<player> cancels their move". The guidelines do mention that this is a heavy-handed solution because it saves and restores the entire table's data, but it is consistent with how many other games are implementing undo.
A more difficult to implement alternative would be an incremental undo ("player undoes worker action"). This would require storing individual actions taken this turn in the database in some way and creating a coherent way to represent undo on the client side. This is how I implemented incremental undo for tile placement in Off the Rails, but it does have the disadvantage you mention of creating a log entry for every action that is done and undone.
en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Main_game_logic:_yourgamename.game.php#Undo_moves
This would undo your entire turn. Canceled notification log items would disappear and there would only be one item saying "<player> cancels their move". The guidelines do mention that this is a heavy-handed solution because it saves and restores the entire table's data, but it is consistent with how many other games are implementing undo.
A more difficult to implement alternative would be an incremental undo ("player undoes worker action"). This would require storing individual actions taken this turn in the database in some way and creating a coherent way to represent undo on the client side. This is how I implemented incremental undo for tile placement in Off the Rails, but it does have the disadvantage you mention of creating a log entry for every action that is done and undone.
2020年 8月15日 10:04 • ExtraPaul • 開發者認同這是個好點子,並計劃實行:
Thank you for this explanation.
I note that an Undo for the whole turn of actions is a way, but :
- a confirm button is thus necessary at the end;
- this state of the game is in multi player mode : the undo database will be for all players ?
- I must fire notifications to remove cacao fruits in the player zone;
I'm considering this Undo for the future, when I'll be more "veteran" with BGA programming.
This is a big refactoring.
I note that an Undo for the whole turn of actions is a way, but :
- a confirm button is thus necessary at the end;
- this state of the game is in multi player mode : the undo database will be for all players ?
- I must fire notifications to remove cacao fruits in the player zone;
I'm considering this Undo for the future, when I'll be more "veteran" with BGA programming.
This is a big refactoring.
2020年 8月15日 15:20 • paramesis • 開發者認同這是個好點子,並計劃實行:
The basic implementation of database undo actually only requires a few lines of code.
$this->undoSavePoint(); at the beginning of a single player's turn, an undo button added to the action bar (possibly with a modal confirmation), an undo action added to action.php and added as a possible action to the state, and $this->undoRestorePoint(); if the user takes the undo action. See La Granja, Teotihuacan, and Off the Rails (mine) for publicly accessible precedents.
I do not believe an end turn button violates the intent of the BGA guidelines for multi-step turns. I have written a defense of this position on the forums here: boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16770
Of course, every game is different, and if an end turn button feels like too much of an extra step, you could investigate the "request undo" checkbox precedent established in Teotihuacan. This would require refactoring to add an extra state, or to add an extra argument to each player action.
database undo is not supported in multiactiveplayer states. There can be only one persistent active player between any two points where undoSavePoint and undoRestorePoint are called. From my understanding of this game, it seems pretty rare that the multipleactiveplayer state would require multiple actions, so you'd probably be fine without an undo here. If it feels like it does need an Undo to be consistent, it might be better to cycle through players in a single action. La Granja has a game option for this, but that might be overkill here.
No notifications are necessary to restore the game state. undoRestorePoint automatically handles this :)
$this->undoSavePoint(); at the beginning of a single player's turn, an undo button added to the action bar (possibly with a modal confirmation), an undo action added to action.php and added as a possible action to the state, and $this->undoRestorePoint(); if the user takes the undo action. See La Granja, Teotihuacan, and Off the Rails (mine) for publicly accessible precedents.
I do not believe an end turn button violates the intent of the BGA guidelines for multi-step turns. I have written a defense of this position on the forums here: boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16770
Of course, every game is different, and if an end turn button feels like too much of an extra step, you could investigate the "request undo" checkbox precedent established in Teotihuacan. This would require refactoring to add an extra state, or to add an extra argument to each player action.
database undo is not supported in multiactiveplayer states. There can be only one persistent active player between any two points where undoSavePoint and undoRestorePoint are called. From my understanding of this game, it seems pretty rare that the multipleactiveplayer state would require multiple actions, so you'd probably be fine without an undo here. If it feels like it does need an Undo to be consistent, it might be better to cycle through players in a single action. La Granja has a game option for this, but that might be overkill here.
No notifications are necessary to restore the game state. undoRestorePoint automatically handles this :)
2020年 8月15日 15:21 • paramesis • 開發者認同這是個好點子,並計劃實行:
I forgot to add that rolling out database undo will break games in progress, so it's best to do that now while it's in Alpha.
2020年 8月25日 15:58 • iris1 • 開發者認同這是個好點子,並計劃實行:
Wish it was like in carcassonne 3 tiles in hand. Be able to change mind about which of the three tiles and try them out on the before you confirm. Then I guess the undo would be not necessary.
2020年 9月14日 3:39 • razzinplant • 開發者認同這是個好點子,並計劃實行:
An undo button when placing a tile would be nice so before you confirm placement you can choose a different tile.
2020年 9月24日 10:32 • NexusHorizon • 開發者認同這是個好點子,並計劃實行:
I think that would be enough and a more practical solution (for players and developer) to have the ability to change the worker tile just before choosing the jungle tile
2020年 9月24日 11:49 • ExtraPaul • 開發者認同這是個好點子,並計劃實行:
Yes, and this iidea is here : boardgamearena.com/bug?id=24585
2020年 9月28日 21:55 • ExtraPaul • 開發者認為這並非好主意,或投資報酬率過低:
"I think that would be enough and a more practical solution (for players and developer) to have the ability to change the worker tile just before choosing the jungle tile"
This is implement is this new release version 200928-2118.
I reject the idea to program an undo on a multi players state : this is overkill and reduces the flow of the game.
This is implement is this new release version 200928-2118.
I reject the idea to program an undo on a multi players state : this is overkill and reduces the flow of the game.
為本案件添加內容
任何可能重現這項錯誤或了解你的建議之相關資訊,都請在此填寫:
- 其他同樣狀況的桌號/步數
- 按 F5 是否解決了這個問題?
- 問題是否發生了好幾次?每次都發生?時好時壞?
- 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
更改案件狀態為:
bug?id=22152