#46572: "Increase the amount of time to call for turn-based games, and auto-pass if the call time expires"
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細節描述
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• 如果可以的話，請轉貼螢幕顯示的錯誤訊息。
When players are playing turn-based sessions, which can sometimes have durations of up to 2 days inbetween turns, they're usually not paying attention to the session that much. This, along with the default call time limit being 8s, can result in players missing a chance to make a call, which can be frustrating.
For synchronous/real-time sessions, I can understand the call limit being 8s. For asynchronous/turn-based sessions, this would seem to require more attention than expected.
Additionally, if a player misses a chance to call, it doesn't make sense to make the rest of the game have to wait for that player to explicitly pass, since they'd no longer have the ability to call anyway.
So these are the two suggestions I'm making:
1. If the call time limit passes for a tile, make everyone auto-pass.
2. Offer a longer call time limit for turn-based sessions, and use that as the default call time limit for turn-based sessions. -
• 請說明你當時想做什麼，你做了什麼，然後發生了什麼事
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v92
-
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
When players are playing turn-based sessions, which can sometimes have durations of up to 2 days inbetween turns, they're usually not paying attention to the session that much. This, along with the default call time limit being 8s, can result in players missing a chance to make a call, which can be frustrating.
For synchronous/real-time sessions, I can understand the call limit being 8s. For asynchronous/turn-based sessions, this would seem to require more attention than expected.
Additionally, if a player misses a chance to call, it doesn't make sense to make the rest of the game have to wait for that player to explicitly pass, since they'd no longer have the ability to call anyway.
So these are the two suggestions I'm making:
1. If the call time limit passes for a tile, make everyone auto-pass.
2. Offer a longer call time limit for turn-based sessions, and use that as the default call time limit for turn-based sessions. -
• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎？若為真，其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時？
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v92
-
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議，以便讓人一目了然。
When players are playing turn-based sessions, which can sometimes have durations of up to 2 days inbetween turns, they're usually not paying attention to the session that much. This, along with the default call time limit being 8s, can result in players missing a chance to make a call, which can be frustrating.
For synchronous/real-time sessions, I can understand the call limit being 8s. For asynchronous/turn-based sessions, this would seem to require more attention than expected.
Additionally, if a player misses a chance to call, it doesn't make sense to make the rest of the game have to wait for that player to explicitly pass, since they'd no longer have the ability to call anyway.
So these are the two suggestions I'm making:
1. If the call time limit passes for a tile, make everyone auto-pass.
2. Offer a longer call time limit for turn-based sessions, and use that as the default call time limit for turn-based sessions. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v92
-
• 當你不能動作時，螢幕上顯示什麼？（螢幕全黑？部份遊戲介面？錯誤訊息？）
When players are playing turn-based sessions, which can sometimes have durations of up to 2 days inbetween turns, they're usually not paying attention to the session that much. This, along with the default call time limit being 8s, can result in players missing a chance to make a call, which can be frustrating.
For synchronous/real-time sessions, I can understand the call limit being 8s. For asynchronous/turn-based sessions, this would seem to require more attention than expected.
Additionally, if a player misses a chance to call, it doesn't make sense to make the rest of the game have to wait for that player to explicitly pass, since they'd no longer have the ability to call anyway.
So these are the two suggestions I'm making:
1. If the call time limit passes for a tile, make everyone auto-pass.
2. Offer a longer call time limit for turn-based sessions, and use that as the default call time limit for turn-based sessions. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v92
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• 遊戲規則的哪部分在 BGA 版本有所錯漏？
When players are playing turn-based sessions, which can sometimes have durations of up to 2 days inbetween turns, they're usually not paying attention to the session that much. This, along with the default call time limit being 8s, can result in players missing a chance to make a call, which can be frustrating.
For synchronous/real-time sessions, I can understand the call limit being 8s. For asynchronous/turn-based sessions, this would seem to require more attention than expected.
Additionally, if a player misses a chance to call, it doesn't make sense to make the rest of the game have to wait for that player to explicitly pass, since they'd no longer have the ability to call anyway.
So these are the two suggestions I'm making:
1. If the call time limit passes for a tile, make everyone auto-pass.
2. Offer a longer call time limit for turn-based sessions, and use that as the default call time limit for turn-based sessions. -
• 這項違反規則之處可否在遊戲重播中看到？若可以是在哪步？（重播時左上角資訊）
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v92
-
• 你當時想採取哪個遊戲行動？
When players are playing turn-based sessions, which can sometimes have durations of up to 2 days inbetween turns, they're usually not paying attention to the session that much. This, along with the default call time limit being 8s, can result in players missing a chance to make a call, which can be frustrating.
For synchronous/real-time sessions, I can understand the call limit being 8s. For asynchronous/turn-based sessions, this would seem to require more attention than expected.
Additionally, if a player misses a chance to call, it doesn't make sense to make the rest of the game have to wait for that player to explicitly pass, since they'd no longer have the ability to call anyway.
So these are the two suggestions I'm making:
1. If the call time limit passes for a tile, make everyone auto-pass.
2. Offer a longer call time limit for turn-based sessions, and use that as the default call time limit for turn-based sessions. -
• 你想觸發這個遊戲行動時做了什麼？
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• 當你試著這麼做時發生了什麼（錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...）？
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v92
-
• 問題發生在遊戲的哪一步？（目前遊戲指示是什麼）
When players are playing turn-based sessions, which can sometimes have durations of up to 2 days inbetween turns, they're usually not paying attention to the session that much. This, along with the default call time limit being 8s, can result in players missing a chance to make a call, which can be frustrating.
For synchronous/real-time sessions, I can understand the call limit being 8s. For asynchronous/turn-based sessions, this would seem to require more attention than expected.
Additionally, if a player misses a chance to call, it doesn't make sense to make the rest of the game have to wait for that player to explicitly pass, since they'd no longer have the ability to call anyway.
So these are the two suggestions I'm making:
1. If the call time limit passes for a tile, make everyone auto-pass.
2. Offer a longer call time limit for turn-based sessions, and use that as the default call time limit for turn-based sessions. -
• 當你試著進行遊戲動作時發生了什麼（錯誤訊息、遊戲狀態條訊息...）？
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v92
-
• 請描述顯示問題。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
When players are playing turn-based sessions, which can sometimes have durations of up to 2 days inbetween turns, they're usually not paying attention to the session that much. This, along with the default call time limit being 8s, can result in players missing a chance to make a call, which can be frustrating.
For synchronous/real-time sessions, I can understand the call limit being 8s. For asynchronous/turn-based sessions, this would seem to require more attention than expected.
Additionally, if a player misses a chance to call, it doesn't make sense to make the rest of the game have to wait for that player to explicitly pass, since they'd no longer have the ability to call anyway.
So these are the two suggestions I'm making:
1. If the call time limit passes for a tile, make everyone auto-pass.
2. Offer a longer call time limit for turn-based sessions, and use that as the default call time limit for turn-based sessions. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v92
-
• 請轉貼未翻譯的英文字句。 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
When players are playing turn-based sessions, which can sometimes have durations of up to 2 days inbetween turns, they're usually not paying attention to the session that much. This, along with the default call time limit being 8s, can result in players missing a chance to make a call, which can be frustrating.
For synchronous/real-time sessions, I can understand the call limit being 8s. For asynchronous/turn-based sessions, this would seem to require more attention than expected.
Additionally, if a player misses a chance to call, it doesn't make sense to make the rest of the game have to wait for that player to explicitly pass, since they'd no longer have the ability to call anyway.
So these are the two suggestions I'm making:
1. If the call time limit passes for a tile, make everyone auto-pass.
2. Offer a longer call time limit for turn-based sessions, and use that as the default call time limit for turn-based sessions. -
• 這些文字存在於 翻譯系統 中嗎？若為真，其是否已被翻譯超過 24 小時？
• 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v92
-
• 請簡明精確地解釋你的建議，以便讓人一目了然。
When players are playing turn-based sessions, which can sometimes have durations of up to 2 days inbetween turns, they're usually not paying attention to the session that much. This, along with the default call time limit being 8s, can result in players missing a chance to make a call, which can be frustrating.
For synchronous/real-time sessions, I can understand the call limit being 8s. For asynchronous/turn-based sessions, this would seem to require more attention than expected.
Additionally, if a player misses a chance to call, it doesn't make sense to make the rest of the game have to wait for that player to explicitly pass, since they'd no longer have the ability to call anyway.
So these are the two suggestions I'm making:
1. If the call time limit passes for a tile, make everyone auto-pass.
2. Offer a longer call time limit for turn-based sessions, and use that as the default call time limit for turn-based sessions. • 你的瀏覽器是什麼？
Google Chrome v92
案件沿革
i.imgur.com/jhgnq30.png
I'm not sure how much strategic impact this would have, but it would vastly improve the play experience for me since it might halve (or more?) the time required for an async game.
@GTSchemer: how exactly would this work? You mean as a settable game option at table creation?
I agree that this speeds up proceedings since the players don't always become active but it creates a different game since call availability will be apparent to all players (i.e., strategic impact is large). Secondly, do you know if the game is played async on any other platform? Mahjong is particular in this regard since there are so many call opportunities throughout the game ...
Anyway, with current setting the game is nearly unplayable in turn-based. It will take literally months to complete even an East round game.
Some games change the available options depending on other settings -- for example, when you create a Kingdomino table, the "Mighty Duel" option list is not even visible unless you choose exactly 2 players. There is no way to detect "this is a turn-based lobby"?
As for the actual setting, I think this has the potential to be the first async Riichi Mahjong implementation, at least that I know of. As such it probably won't be perfect, but I argue that making a playable async implementation AT ALL will be a big improvement given BGA's huge audience.
I can think of a few ways to allow this:
1. Option for a player to autopass if they can't call (this could be a player preference option in the hamburger menu, so people who usually play async can flip the switch).
2. Checkbox/button on the game screen to enable autopass, allowing a player to turn it on and off during the game. It would still have strategic impact, but would allow someone to fake the possibility of a call if they wanted -- some chance of mindgames.
3. (too complex to be worth it?) WIth either options 1 and 2, some additional granularity -- maybe 3 checkboxes for "always call ron", always call pow", "always call chi", which would override the autopass if enabled.
4. (probably too complex to be worth it) Option for a player to press a button which pops up a grid of tiles. The player can then toggle some of these tiles as the ones they would call, if legal. Basically a way to privately set your waits.
i.imgur.com/gavCL3j.png
The discarded tile in question is the 5-pin (which I probably wouldn't want with my hand tbh), and it was discarded at around 10:18am today, which I will admit I did not wake up in time for at all.
At this point, I think my best option is to go for a closed hand and riichi, though now I'm curious about how well that would work in a turn-based session.
At this point I think defaulting to infinite timeout is the easier option, if there is no way on the dev side to say "Did the user configure the room as turn-based?" ala the Kingdomino option I mentioned earlier, and how it changes based on player count.
I am not at my dev system at the moment, so I cannot really do anything until the weekend. I agree changing the default to always click is the more inclusive option. And add some explanatory text with the option.
Additionally, I thought it was obvious to disable timeouts when playing turn-based, my bad.
For the autocall options: I'll have a look.
Thanks for your patience! I do not mean to complain too much and burn you out, but I do think a default of "no limit" would be the best workaround for now.
Once the module enters beta, there might be more realtime players available, but for now the player base is very limited.
1. autocalling tsumo/ron if possible.
2. never asking whether to claim a tile or not even if you can do (to hide hand information when you don't want to call).
this option resets after a hand is finished.
About call limit... For real time, 8s is not bad. Most mahjong implementations give 5~10s to DISCARD and it works well.
However I think turn-based should not introduce such a thing.
I think GTSchemer's 4th idea is the best if it can be worked on, but yeah, it's too complex.
Perhaps turn-based mahjong should stick with autopass?
I am also (very) unsure what an "always call Pon" or "always call Chi" would accomplish since this is strategically misleading to newbies (i.e., generally wrong). I think the standard options mentioned by ufm and GTSchemer 1/3 are what I will go with, with some added granularity for the particularities of the implementation.
Just to clarify again: playing turn-based Mahjong is not something I would do intuitively. I don't think it matters much how it is implemented; it is simply the sheer number of tiles being drawn (which can be 500+ for an East round alone). That said, maybe it offers something if you had 10-20 games running at a time, to mitigate the frustration that will sometimes come into play if you're stuck in a series of bad hands in an individual (usually realtime) game ...
As the developer said it is misleading for new players, and it might destroy your hand in certain condition, like when you have a 1-shanten hand which requires a specific call to tenpai but somehow you call wrong tiles due to the setting.
Heck, you may even implement 1 hand game for turn-based! (possibly as a training mode only option?)
為本案件添加內容
- 其他同樣狀況的桌號／步數
- 按 F5 是否解決了這個問題？
- 問題是否發生了好幾次？每次都發生？時好時壞？
- 建議將此錯誤的螢幕截圖上傳到 Imgur.com 並轉貼連結。
